Broncos, Seahawks have QB questions after TNF matchup

On today's PFT Live, we take a close look at the Thursday night opener between the Seahawks and the Broncos, both offenses struggling, both quarterbacks regressing, and the Seahawks matching their total losses from 2025. Also, what's going on with Eagles quarterback Jalen Hertz, and what does it mean for a tumultuous Philadelphia season that continues to unfold one tough game at a time? All that and much more on this Friday edition of PFT Live. Third down and six, three receivers left. Darnold from the gun, looks, throws left side open on the sideline. It's intercepted. Stepping in front of the pass is Jaquan McMillan, and he's out of bounds at the Seattle 43. Darnold trying to feather that ball in on the sideline, and Jaquan McMillan jumped in front of it with the pick, and Denver's on the doorstep of an overtime win. 53-yard try from the right hash for the win in Denver. Good snap, good hold. The kick is on the way, and it is good. It is good, and the Denver Broncos win it in overtime, 17-14. That was last night in Denver, the two number one seeds from the prior season. Both teams at two losses, the loser would match their total losses for the prior season. So that meant it was going to be an exciting, hard-fought snooze fest, even though it went to overtime. That was a boring game. And I know that someone out there is going to say, I like it. It's defense. There's a fine line between good defense and offense that is non-functional. And it felt like last night the two teams were in competition to see who could have the most non-functional offense. And with that, I say, good morning to my Friday run PFT co-host, Michael Holley. Good morning. I thought you were going to say, and with that, I say good morning to my non-functional co-host, Michael Holley, which would be an accurate... I would do that to Chris, because it's accurate, but I wouldn't do that to you. Hey, Mike, good morning. I got to tell you, you're right. It was, it was, the game was a little slow. And you know what it was? It was a trap game in this sense. It was a trap game for the casual fan. Because if you're a casual fan and you're walking by, you say, wow, those are two good looking teams right there. Oh, the uniforms are great. They popped. They popped on the screen. You see the old school orange crush. You see that big D and the Bronco. It's awesome. Then the Seahawk. Great combination. Royal blue and silver. It looks beautiful. And so if you're a casual fan, you're like, hey, let me check this out. And then you go away from it because you're right. It was bad offense. How many yards did the Broncos have in the second half? They had like 30 something yards of offense in the second half of that game. It was just painful to watch them go. They had 32 yards on their final 10 drives. That's... 32 yards on their final 10 possessions. That's incredible. 168 for the game. What do you think Davis Webb said after that game? Not so... It wasn't me. You miss me a little bit, don't you? He can say it wasn't me accurately and truthfully. Right. Hey, it wasn't me. First time that sentence has ever been uttered. I don't care what you saw. In a truthful way. It wasn't me. It wasn't me. I don't care what you think you saw. It wasn't me, Mike. It wasn't me. But yeah, a really... They cut to him at one point, Michael. They cut to him at one point. I think... I'm sorry to interrupt you. I think this was in the first half before they got into that plotting second half. Because the first half, they scored 14 points, the Broncos did. They had scored 23 and 5 games combined in the first half. They were tied for the lowest first half output from a point standpoint in the entire league with the woeful, pathetic, abysmal Tennessee Titans. But they cut to Davis Webb in the first half, and he looked... He just looked relieved. He just, you know, not my problem anymore, because maybe the problems run far deeper than the guy calling the plays. Because Sean Payton is calling him now, and that was not the kind of offense that we're accustomed to from Sean Payton. 168 yards. We've seen some games with the Saints when Sean Payton was there, where I think we saw 168 yards in the first quarter, not the first half. But look, in all seriousness, I understand why Sean Payton did what he did. I think it was the right thing to do. As a matter of fact, they showed, did you see it last night? They showed when Sean Payton lost his play calling duties with the Giants in 2002. They showed a clip of Sean Payton and his comments where, hey, the play calling is not the reason we're three and four right now. So Sean Payton, 20 plus years ago was right. It wasn't just the play calling with that Giants team back in the day. Sean Payton of 2026 is right. Look, if your team is struggling on offense and that's your area of expertise, you're the head coach, you're going to sit back and say, all right, well, I'll let my first year offensive coordinator figure it out. He was just playing in the league five or six years ago. Now he's my first year offensive coordinator. He'll figure it out. Or do you take over? And I think even though it hasn't looked great since he's taken over, it's something that he had to do because the season can get away with get, get away from you very quickly. And he's also skilled. He's skilled with he's got the art of rhetoric, doesn't he, Mike? After the game, they showed just a little peek inside the Broncos locker room. Not a great peek, by the way. Give me some give me some fire and brimstone. Give me some stuff. But inside that locker room, he's saying, hey, you there are many ways to win these games. Every game is a little different. And so he's pointing out that they didn't turn the ball over. Okay. Yeah, you didn't. Yeah, you didn't turn the ball over, but you also didn't get the high level quarterbacking that you expected to get when you took over the reins from Davis Webb. Let's be honest. He thought it would be a lot better. He probably feels like he called the right plays to put Bo Nix in position to be successful, and it still didn't work. So they've got problems even though they're 4-2, and they've had a very difficult schedule, and they beat, I still think, a really good team last night. But quarterback spot, you look at it, and it looks a little shaky, Mike. You know, it's funny, usually on one of these Friday morning shows, I struggle with whether to focus on the good or the bad right out of the gates. Today's choice is between bad and bad, because even for the team that won, it feels like the entirety of the commentary is going to be focused on criticism of the team. But for the Broncos to win the game, gaining only 168 yards, and Gary tells us that's the lowest yardage output for a Broncos team in a win since 1983. That would have been John Elway's rookie year, and it was a little rocky for him at first. This is Bo Nix's third year. I think there's a subtext to all of this. We talked about it yesterday as it relates to Bo Nix, and the trajectory of his career. He's in year three. Year three is critical for a first round quarterback. Year three is the year that you earn your second contract, or you don't. And I said this yesterday, and I firmly believe it. I believe it even more based on what we saw last night. The decision for the Broncos at the end of the season isn't going to be, do we pay a market value? Do we ride it out and see if it gets better? Do we offer him something mid level or do we move on? I think there's two choices, up or out. He either earns a market level contract or they're going to find another quarterback. And based upon what we've seen so far, right now, he's on track to not be the starting quarterback of the Denver Broncos next year. And I don't know if you saw this after the game. Ryan Fitzpatrick went off in a way that you never see an analyst after a game on any network go off. It almost felt personal. It almost felt coordinated. Yes. It almost felt like he did that. And I'm just giving you my reaction from watching it. I don't know if anyone put Ryan Fitzpatrick up to that, but it almost felt like that. Either Ryan Fitzpatrick and Bo Nix have some beef that we were not previously aware of, that Ryan Fitzpatrick finally had an opportunity to act out on. Or, or somebody kind of gave him the nod. They gave him the, he's doing the Broncos a favor. It felt like. Now, there's also the possibility that it was an honest, legitimate, heartfelt, authentic, organic analysis. But you never see that. And maybe, hey, maybe it should be, all right, man, if you truly believe it, say it. Don't edit yourself. Don't feel like you have to defer. Don't, don't give in to what Howard Coseau used to call the jococracy. That was one of his big criticisms. Former players, oh, can't criticize current players. Can't do it. Not allowed to do it. Got to make excuses. I'm telling you, what Fitzpatrick said was so blunt and so over the top that it, it's jarring because, again, we don't see that. We don't hear that. We don't, we don't, because even if it's what you really believe, it still crosses that line of feeling personal, even if it's not. It really was. He got him a couple of times. The bottom line is, he's just not good enough in the eyes of Ryan Fitzpatrick. This is a guy that played quarterback in the NFL for a long time. Let me just give you a little flavor of it. Let me give you a little flavor of it. There were two different times, as I said, and his hammer, his hammer. There's a lot of guys that have played this game, that watch that game and think, that right there is garbage. That effort is garbage. That is not a quarterback in the NFL. We deserve better. That was after he said a lot of other stuff, and he got all cranked up. I mean, he was getting passionate. He got himself all worked up the first time. So you never see that, and you never see it after a team wins. It's like, dude, they won. But, and that was one of his points. They're celebrating in the locker room, but their quarterback is not functioning. Mike, Mike, look, we saw this the same way. I'm glad you said that about Ryan Fitzpatrick. Like, what's going on here? Is this personal? Because that did cross my mind. As a matter of fact, we all know. Uh oh, we lost Michael. The bill is Michael. Or did we lose me? I guess we lost Michael or they wouldn't have cut to me. We'll get Michael back. We'll get Michael back as quickly as we can. In the days of the Old West. Those two would be meeting. Out on a dusty. Downtown street. Taking ten paces. I'm pulling out a gun. Did I go back? Did I go out for a second? Slap in the face. You're back. You're back. Don't scare me like that. Okay. Don't give me flashbacks. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I'm fine. I feel great. I feel great. Everything. There's water, everything. We're good. We're good. I ate before the show. Um, no, I'm saying that, uh, so Fitzpatrick played in the league for a long time. We know that 15 years and I didn't go back. I covered him at Harvard, uh, way back when. So he's been around and my first thought, Mike, was, hmm, did Ryan Fitzpatrick in his long career, did he ever cross paths with Sean Payton? Did Sean Payton kind of whisper in his ear? And as he's saying this, is this, uh, doing somebody a solid. So that's one, that was one thought. But then my other thought was, and this is why I'm a little conflicted on it. It's exactly what you said. We're so used to people kind of filtering their comments. Because look, it's a cushy gig. Let's just be honest. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but it's a cushy gig. You have these analyst jobs, you get paid a lot of money, you go around, you have pretty good access, unless you're Tom Brady, but you have pretty good access to the coaches and to the players and ownership. And they start to tell you things. And it's almost like this expectation of quid pro quo. Well, you know, listen, we're all in the same club, so I'm going to tell you this, but you're not going to make me look bad and I'll come back and give you something later. I mean, literally that's how it goes. Especially if you've been doing it for a long time. And so it was refreshing in a sense to hear Fitzpatrick talk like that about a player. But back to the personal thing. Hey, Ryan, there was a quarterback who lost his team to game yesterday by throwing two brutal interceptions and it wasn't Bo Nix. So you can say that, you know, Bo Nix didn't have passion and effort and all this stuff. But Sam Darnold lost his team the game. So it's really a strange place to go off on one quarterback who won the game and didn't turn the ball over. I know it wasn't great. It didn't look, it wasn't exciting. But it also wasn't a losing effort. So it, I really would like to know what's behind all this because it was a little over the top, as you said. They did elsewhere on the panel. Andrew Whitworth and Richard Sherman criticized Sam Darnold right out of the gates. And I think that Fitzpatrick was specifically teed up to talk about the Broncos, which could bolster our theory that this was all kind of contrived. This wasn't something that just popped up out of nowhere. Hey, make sure you come to me when it's time to talk about Bo Nix. But it just feels like, I mean, look, and here's the thing. If you're going to be openly critical, you open yourself up to fair criticism. He missed the mark from the standpoint of not creating the perception that it was personal. He didn't stick that landing. And the first time that he went after him, here's some of what he said early in the post game show. Bo Nix is not playing competitively. It's almost disrespectful to the quarterback position, how he's playing quarterback right now. He has no trust from his coach. He calls a screenplay on third and eight. Now they're in the locker room. They're excited. Day one, he's not playing competitive football right now. I can only imagine how Sean Payton feels. I mean, Sean Payton, Davis Webb, everybody that blocks for him. He's not competing right now. And that's something he's hung his hat on for the last two years. I don't know if he's still injured. I don't know what's going on, but it's not good enough. It's effort. And by the end, he was cranked up like a guy in one of those phony wrestling promos. He was all lathered up and yelling. And so it did feel performative. It did feel contrived. It did feel personal. It was awesome. But like you said, we don't get a lot of that fire and brimstone on the desk of one of the pregame shows. We don't. And even when somebody offers criticism, it doesn't come off as personal. Mike Tomlin, who summed up the gig this week on New Heights by saying full-time pay, half-time work. But Mike Tomlin has been critical. But he has not been personal. And it has not felt performative. And for those of us in the business who know how the sausage gets made, it's never felt like he's doing somebody a solid here. And that's really the most intriguing possibility. Of all of the possible options and explanations for this, the most intriguing one is somebody put him up to it from the team that has a decision to make about Bo Nix after this year. And somebody wants to fire a warning shot publicly at Bo Nix. I really do believe that. And we've seen that with other players who, will respond. The Eagles did it with Jalen Hurts back in March. There's a belief that one of the ways to get your message across to Jalen Hurts is to go to the media. There was that huge long read on espn.com that that posted the moment the wheels went up from the private jets in Arizona and they left the league meetings. Boom, here's this article about Jalen Hurts being on notice this year with a lot of criticism of him. So, it's not unprecedented that teams use any tool they have available. Yeah, but the teams use any tool they have available and one tool is the media. And you can send a message to a player who isn't getting it done through the media. And Bo Nix isn't getting it done and a message needs to be sent to Bo Nix. So, that's why from our perspective, I don't want people to understand this. That's why us in the business look at it and say, yeah, there's some... If we dusted that thing for Prince, it would be a match to one or more people working for the Broncos. Yeah, it might be... And look, I don't know. I don't... I don't know Bo Nix really at all. So, it might be fair criticism overall. I just don't think it was fair last night. It might be the story of Bo Nix. Who knows? But I don't think that was the story last night. Mike, they couldn't do anything. They couldn't do anything. They tried. I can see what Sean Payton was trying to do at the very beginning of the game. Very beginning, first possession. He goes to the running game. So, he thinks he's going to try to establish something. Maybe he was trying to get the run going so he can get a little play action game going, or it's a rollout game. I don't know what he was trying to do. It really wasn't working. They had some success. One of their touchdowns was embarrassingly easy. The running backs just kind of walked into the end zone. Okay, you get the quick 14 and it looks like, all right, the Broncos might be rolling. But in the second half, they tried to run. They tried to have the screen game. They tried to go to Jalen Watson. I mean, they tried to do everything. It wasn't working. Here's the other point. When Ryan Fitzpatrick says he calls a screen on 3rd and 8th, did Bo Nix audible to that? I don't think Bo Nix. So I think he means Peyton was calling the plays. Okay. Well, that's Peyton. I think that's Peyton, not because it's not trusting. It's Peyton not trusting Nix. That's how I interpreted it. No, it's Peyton not trusting Nix. In the context, that's how I took it. Well, I don't think it was a trust thing. I really didn't see that. I didn't see that last night. No, once again, maybe Sean Peyton doesn't trust Bo Nix and he or somebody close to him whispered that to Ryan Fitzpatrick. But last night, they tried everything. I think Seattle was incredible. So I think both things can be true. Bo Nix was not impressive, but Seattle, I thought the Seattle defense was fantastic last night on everything, including at the end of the game, where in overtime, where they tried to roll out, it was a very imaginative play call, I thought. They tried to roll out Nix as like it's the 1960s Green Bay Packers, you know, Jim Taylor. Let's sweep right and try to pick up the first down, pick up a couple of yards, and the Seahawks were all over that thing. So even if you had a quarterback who you think is a top 10 or a top 15 quarterback in the league, I think they would have struggled last night. And the last thing I'll say, Mike, is the decision has been made on Bo Nix. I think they'd be crazy to move on. I don't think they can. I don't think they can move on from Bo Nix at this point. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? He's won a bunch of games for you. But I don't think they can do it after the season. But Bo Nix says, he is a, I would call, he is solidly, when he's at his best, he is a, how about this description? At his best, he is Brock Purdy-like, Brock Purdy. He's not dominant. He doesn't suck. He's pretty good. He's pretty good. I think he understands what Sean Payton wants to do. Yeah, he's got a little bit of personality. I know they've had some back and forth, a little, some tense moments in the last couple of years, but if you're the Broncos, it's going to be difficult to move on from this quarterback you took in the first round and you won a bunch of games with and say, yeah, we can do better. I'm not sure you can. I think you can. Under these specific circumstances, let me explain why. You've got a coach who's 63 years old, who is keenly aware of the fact that no coach has won a Super Bowl with two different franchises. And the first one that pulls that off has a one-way ticket to Canton when he's done. And what else are you trying to get when you're at that stage of your career? You got more money than you can ever spend, more money than your kids can ever spend. It's legacy at that point. How do I set myself apart? No one has won a Super Bowl with two different teams. Now, when they drafted Bo Nix in 2024 and Sean Payton did the victory lap for basically duping the Vikings into thinking that he wanted JJ McCarthy and he gets Bo Nix and Bo Nix plays well enough, the whole idea was you're going to have Sean Payton and Bo Nix, just like you had Sean Payton and Drew Brees. You're going to have a quarterback coach joined at the hip. But there's a line, Michael, between being joined at the hip or being two guys who are handcuffed together and the other one's not running fast enough. You know what happens then? Yeah. We saw it in Gladiator. You know what happens when two guys are cuffed together and one isn't getting it done? Bye-bye arm. Bye-bye cuffs. I'm cutting you loose. And I'm going to go do what I have to do. And Sean Payton is going to do what he has to do. And if the fingerprints from what happened last night when Ryan Fitzpatrick all of a sudden was Rick Flair, if that comes from Payton, it's a sign that he's going to do whatever he has to do. And before he cuts Bo Nix loose, he's going to use everything in his toolkit to try to get Bo Nix to turn around. And we played this sound yesterday. Bo Nix talking about his regression. Playing good and playing bad, it's a narrative. And I think it's honestly kind of something we make up. I don't think necessarily I'm playing any different than what I'm normally playing. When Sean Payton hears that Michael Holley, that's when Sean Payton decides, I believe, I don't know this, but I believe, I believe at that point that Sean Payton needs to get a message to Bo Nix. And the messenger may have been Ryan Fitzpatrick. And the ultimate messenger may be the guy who shows up and says, give me your playbook, give me your iPad. It's over. So that's where I think this can be heading. And I think the Broncos can do it. And I think they will do it if they decide that's in the best interest of the team. And I think that Sean Payton has that level of confidence, almost to the level of conceit, that he'll find another quarterback if he has to. Rather than dog paddling with the same guy, rather than hoping that a guy that you know who he is is going to somehow be better, they'll just find somebody else. Let's hear a little from Bo Nix last night following his latest performance that was, in the words of Ryan Fitzpatrick, garbage. I don't understand why, you know, we can't really push the ball vertically right now, but defenses are just, you know, sitting back there hanging out. So we're just going to keep running the football. We just hopefully going to find ways to get more out of it. Yeah, we're definitely capable. We've shown it. And, you know, I don't know where the disconnect is right now, to be honest with you, because like when, you know, the shots called, read it out, it's not there. You make the right play with the football, check it down, and you go to the next play. I just think we're really, for some reason, struggling to find those explosive plays. And that's what makes an offense really spectacular, is finding explosive plays. And right now, those, we don't have those. Well, we better hope he's right when he says that. Because if Sean Payton says, the throws are there, and you're just not pulling the trigger for whatever reason, that's going to be another piece of evidence that ultimately is used when the decision is made after this season that the Broncos are going to move on from Bo Nix. And the irony is there was a point during training camp where Sean Payton was defending Bo Nix against Jeff Schwartz, a former Oregon offensive lineman who played in the NFL and was on one of the FS1 shows criticizing Bo Nix for not throwing the ball down the field. And Payton jumped on to Twitter and basically said, well, you find out quickly who watches and who doesn't. So it will be interesting to see what the final assessment is as to whether or not there were plays to be had down the field in the opinion of the guy who designs and calls the plays. Let's do this. We had another. I have not been hogging the baton. We have had another technical glitch. Not a physical glitch, a technical glitch with Michael Holley. Let's take a break. When we return, we'll flip it around to talk about the team that didn't win, but it felt like they lost. The team that lost, but when you look at the stats, it sure feels like they won. That's next on this Friday edition of PFT Live. PFT Live, Friday edition, week 6 has begun, and the Seattle Seahawks have matched their lost total from 2025 when they finished with the number 1 seed. They are now two and a half games plus a tiebreaker behind the San Francisco 49ers. And when you look at their wins, Michael, they have beaten the Patriots in a game that was there to be had by the Patriots. Until Drake May turned into interception machine in the fourth quarter. And really, I remember that night we were in Seattle, and I was clear at halftime, and I went back to the hotel because I had dragged my wife to Seattle with me, we went out to a nice dinner, and as we were getting ready to leave the hotel room, now, I was distracted because I watched the game on my phone the whole time, like one of those guys, I gladly wear that badge of honor as being one of those guys. But I remember as we walked out of the hotel room, I'm thinking, hey, I picked the Patriots to win this game, I'm feeling pretty good, up 10 points, this is good. And even after they squandered that lead, hey, all right, then we're gonna have overtime at a minimum, overtime. I'll take overtime after blowing that lead, I'll take overtime. Well, that's a game the Seahawks could have lost. That's one of their three wins. And then the next week, they went to Arizona and beat the Cardinals. Well, who the F hasn't gone to Arizona and beaten the Cardinals? They haven't won a home game since September 14 of 2025. And then, they got to sweat one out against the windless chargers, and they win by seven. Those are their three wins. Not exactly impressive wins. Now, I know they've lost to, you know, good teams in tough spots in Denver. Not easy. Loud there. Obviously, loud there and disruptive. There were so many times when the Seahawks were at the line of scrimmage, and you just got that vibe that it's not really clicking the way it should and the sound has something to do with it. But this is a team that is very disappointing in relation to what the expectation was, what the achievement was, and what their regular season mark was last year when they were the number one seed in the NFC. Three and three after 14 and three. That's a slap in the face. And now we'll see how they recover from that slap in the face. You know, it's funny, Mike, you talk about that first game of the season, that Patriots Seahawks game, and you said until the Patriots had control, until Drake May turned into, and I'll just fill in the blank, Drake May turned into Sam Darnold. That's really what it was. He had a three interception, fourth quarter, and that's who Sam Darnold is. See, this is why it's scary for the Seahawks. I was a little snarky last night in our chat when I said, in the fourth quarter, excuse me, in overtime, said, hey, sorry, for those of you who loved them as a jet, this is who Sam Darnold is. Okay, but it really, this is who Sam Darnold is, and it's scary for the Seahawks, because when he's going well, he turns the ball over. And when you look at it last year, yeah, they won the Super Bowl, and he had a great, a clean postseason, and in the regular season, if you look at Sam Darnold, he turned the ball over. So he does that when he's going well, he does that exponentially when he's struggling. And so the question is, can Mike McDonald and the Seahawks live with it? Because when Sam Darnold gets right, you're still gonna have some turnovers that are a little puzzling to you, that will drive you crazy. And we opened the show and the broadcaster was as confused as Sam Darnold was. He said, hey, Darnold, this is an overtime. Man open, Darnold throws. Oh, intercepted. He was never open. Sam Darnold thought he was open, but he wasn't. He didn't see the... he didn't see McMillan, McMillan just kind of sneak in there and undercut the throw. So I don't know what you do if you're Seattle. Maybe I don't think putting him on the bench is realistic. Cause I don't, I don't believe you're a championship contender with Drew Locke as your starting quarterback, the rest of the way, even if you protect Drew Locke, I just don't think he's better than Sam Darnold. Maybe what you do... Are you a championship contender with Sam Darnold? Well, you were, you know, at least you've seen that before. You've seen it. And the reason you signed him to that contract is because you should have been or they could have been contenders when he was with Minnesota. It looked like they were going to be contenders until they weren't, but he had won a bunch of games with the Vikings, played well, played well with the Seahawks last year. He was a Super Bowl winning quarterback. Nobody can take that away from him. But you can't play the way they play with Sam Darnold. I think they just have to change the way they play. They're going to have to become a run heavy team. And Sam Darnold, they're putting him in situations where he's just, it's not his strength. It's almost like they should have paid $14.35 million per year to Kenneth Walker III, the Super Bowl MVP, in lieu of $17 million per year to Rashid Shahid, who did have some contributions last night. But dollar for dollar, the Chiefs are getting more out of Kenneth Walker III than the Seahawks are getting out of Rashid Shahid. That's undeniable. And I know that market dynamics come into play and the receiver position is what it is. They got a guy, they're paying $42 million plus to at receiver. They got Cooper Cup and whatever he's making in his current contract, and they got $17 million per year invested in Shahid. Now, I know he's also a dynamic kick and punt returner, and that's part of what you're paying him for. But, but, the Chiefs are getting a better return, a far better return. And when your identity was run the ball, play great defense, and take advantage of the opportunities that the passing game will give you when you're running the ball well and playing great defense, all of a sudden you can't become, and we said this yesterday, just because Sam Darnold won a Super Bowl last year doesn't mean that he needs to will himself into being Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen. That was the downfall of Russell Wilson in Seattle. After seven, eight, nine years of a team that ran through its defense and its running game, along comes Mahomes and Allen and revolutionizes the way a quarterback plays, especially Mahomes. I mean, Allen too, both of them, both of them completely change what we think, completely stretch the rubber band and pull the quarterback position into a new era. And Russell Wilson, I firmly believe, saw them and said, well, I could do that too. They just don't let me. And thus was spawned, wait for it, let Russ cook. That's what that all was. The entire let Russ cook movement was a reaction by Russell Wilson to what Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen were doing. And so he wanted it. He agitated for it. He eventually got it in a trade to the Broncos. And we know what happened after that. So I feel like they're letting Sam cook. Sam cook. And Sam I am is serving up some rancid green eggs and ham. And I guess this is the point where I'm supposed to drop an F bomb, but I won't. Anyway, the Sam Darnold situation is a problem for the Seahawks, Michael. It's a problem. And they're either going to have to revamp their offensive approach, or they're going to have to consider their options at quarterback. Meanwhile, through it all, and this is perfect cover for Brian Fleury, a first year offensive coordinator who was a quality control coach five years ago. At some point, the conversation needs to be, hey, Mike McDonald, why did you hire Brian Fleury to take over for Cliff Kingsbury with this championship caliber team? Somebody who's never been an offensive coordinator, you're going to entrust, you're not an offensive expert, you're a defensive expert, you're going to entrust your offense to a guy who's never been an offensive coordinator just because he worked with Sean, not Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, but the same idea. Hey, yo, you've been touched by a football deity, therefore it's transferred to you, come work for me. I'd have rather hired somebody who's been there, done that, and that would have been an attractive job that you could have hired many candidates to come in and run that offense, given what the Seahawks did last year, given the quality of the defense and the quality of the roster. Anyway, that's where they are, and it's a mess, and they got to figure it out. We're gonna take a little extra time, but guess who's coming to town? Guess who's coming to town? Yeah. Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs. Look, you could talk about Brian Flurry. Before I get to him, and I think you touched on it, and it's not even a second guess, it's a first guess. You had Kenneth Walker. You had Kenneth Walker III. It's a guy, this is a guy you drafted, you developed, and you watched him really take over in the postseason. When Charbonneau got hurt, he was a full-time guy and he looked like he wore it very well. It looked like he was very comfortable in that spot. We know what he did in the Super Bowl, and Kansas City rushed to the market to pay him. At that moment, if I'm Seattle, I would probably think, what do we do here? Why didn't we just bring back our own guy? It's a running back. It's not like you have to pay defensive end money or quarterback money to Kenneth Walker III. The contract, if you look at it, is very reasonable, even though he's happy with it. From a team building standpoint, from a cap standpoint, it's not something that's going to drag you down. It's not something that's going to kill your cap. So I don't understand why they didn't bring them back in the first place. That's their identity, and he's a sure thing. And I'm not saying, I like him a lot. I don't think he's Jameer Gibbs. I don't think he's Bajan Robinson, but I think he's very good, and he's a Seattle Seahawk. It makes so much sense for how they want to play. So I think that starts it. Because if you look at the offensive coordinator, Brian Fleury, I think he'd look a lot better if he could call for a run for Kenneth Walker III instead of Emmanuel Wilson, who is a good number two, probably even a number three running back. But they don't really have anybody that they can rely on in the running game, and that just upsets the entire operation of who the Seahawks want to be. Hey, they put Rashid Shaheed back there for a player two in the win over the Chargers, and he was untouched on a 28-yard touchdown run. If you're going to pay him more, and that's $17 million a year on a three-year deal, he's getting more when you look at average from signing than Jameer Gibbs or Bijan Robinson. I know we heard $22.5 million. From signing, they're under $17 million in total value on a five-year deal. Rashid Shaheed's got a better contract than two of the best running backs. Well, all three. If the best running backs right now are Bijan Robinson, Jameer Gibbs, Kenneth Walker III, Rashid Shaheed's got a better contract than any of them. Any of them. So, back to Darnold. Let's hear from Sam Darnold. And here's the precursor. Earlier in the week, Sam Darnold was addressing his issues and turnovers, and he said, you got to protect the football, and if you don't, you're going to pay for it. Chris and I yesterday talked about what that could mean. Here's a little more from Sam Darnold last night after a night in which he failed in critical moments to protect the football. When you have a defense and a special teams group that's playing the way that they are for us, like for me, I just got to protect the football. And dropping back and taking what they give me, I feel like I did a pretty good job of that in the first half. And then late in the second half, man, those two plays, it's just, can't have it. Talk to the team right away, and put it on you. What does that for you to do, Mike? Um, I just think it's BS, you know, for me to keep turning the ball over. And it's not fair to our defense, not fair to our special teams group, not fair really to the entire team. So, I got to be better that way. I got to be better and get my name straight. I have been informed that I accidentally said Cliff Kingsbury instead of Clint Kubiak. I heard it, Mike, Mike, I heard it, but I thought we could keep flowing. Act like it didn't happen? No, no, I didn't want to be the, well, actually, because I got your point. You know, I got your point. Yeah, I heard it, but whatever, it happened. I knew who you were talking about and so did everybody else. Cliff Kingsbury would have come in handy on Sunday for the commanders because there's no way in hell Cliff Kingsbury would have run that final 55 seconds the way he did. I think we're going to be talking about that later in the program. But as it relates to Sam Darnold, look, this was the point we made in the aftermath of the Monday night game. And given what Darnold said, Joe Brady, the Buffalo Bills head coach, made it clear that James Cook is on notice because of his fumbling problems. And eventually what happens is you're going to have reduced workload. You're going to have fewer reps. You're going to have fewer touches. That's easier to do at a position where there's a rotation. At the quarterback position, you can't do that. You can't give the guy less work. He either gets all of it or he gets none of it. Now there have been times, and I remember when Steve Spurrier was the coach in Washington, I almost felt like he was going to try to bring that college style, I got two quarterbacks and I'm going to use them both whenever the hell I feel like it. That doesn't work in the NFL. You can't say, all right, Sam had a rough drive, Drew, get in there, Jalen, get in there. No, it's one guy and it's one guy only and that's just the way it is. So my point is this, what's the consequence when it's all or nothing? If you're not getting it done with all, then you're going to end up with nothing, Michael. Yeah, but you really can't. Okay, the consequence is you scale, you take back a little bit of independence from the quarterback. You treat him like he's a second year guy who doesn't know what he's seeing and you got to talk him through it. So if, or, and I don't think this is realistic either, but this would be a consequence. Hey, here's the play. If you see something different, I don't care. Run the play. Don't mess with the play that I'm giving to you. And so those situations don't work. In other words, this is what Sean McVay did with Jared Goff as a young player and he's talking to him all the way through until the coach-to-quarterback communication goes away. And then he got to the point, McVay did, where he was like, okay, he's not making the plays that I want him to play and he just kind of got, he soured on his quarterback and we know what happened after that. We shipped him out of town. That's a consequence when you're starting quarterback is struggling, but he's still better than your backup. Because I'm pretty confident in saying that Sam Darnold is a better quarterback than Drew Locke. But if they go to Drew Locke, all right, so that's what you're saying is, if you go to Drew Locke, you're not going to go back to Sam Darnold. You go to Drew Locke. That's it. And the Sam Darnold era is over, less than a year after you gave him a new contract and he got your team to a Super Bowl victory. I'm not saying carry them there, but he was a big part of their Super Bowl run. Correct. But if the chariot has turned into a pumpkin, and for Sam Darnold, there's a toggle switch between chariot and pumpkin. In 2024, it was chariot, and then on a night in January of 2025, and I was there for the game, the chariot went back to a pumpkin. And then the pumpkin got removed from the pumpkin patch in Minnesota and landed in Seattle. The next thing you know, it's a chariot again. And now it's back to pumpkin. And the contract that Sam Darnold signed before the 2025 season was three years, $100 million. And the way it's structured, he's going to have a big cap charge next year. They're going to have to make a decision about him after this year. Nothing that he is due to be earned, or due to be paid, excuse me, next year, 35 million in change, 35.5 million to be exact. None of that is guaranteed. He's got a $10 million payment that is due on the fifth day of the league year in March. They have a decision to make about Sam Darnold after this season. And if Sam Darnold isn't playing up to the standard, if Sam Darnold is not the guy, you need to move on from him, just like you moved on from Geno Smith. It's harder because the guy has built up some equity. And they got into this mess with Sean Alexander 20 years ago. 2005, MVP season, last year of his rookie deal. We've got to pay Sean Alexander. And a year later, they regretted it because he regressed. And so, look, they're willing to make that assessment. They have to craft their team. One player at a time, one year at a time, one game at a time. You have to make your decisions based upon the evidence that the player is giving you. And wouldn't it have been something if they had thrust Drew Locke into the fray? Drew Locke, who was once a draft pick of the Denver Broncos in the starting quarterback, one of the various starting quarterbacks, as they have continued to stumble and bumble their way in the post Peyton Manning existence of the franchise. That's the key. That's the question. Look at that. Most games with multiple giveaways since 2025, Sam Darnold with nine and did not have a giveaway during the 2025 playoffs. So, yeah, see, there was. I was just going to say quickly, this is why I say it's tricky, Mike, with Sam Darnold, because he tops that list and we all, anybody who's watched football for a decade, everybody, and maybe it's unfair to Sam Darnold. But we've got him, it's like an actor who plays a role. Oh, you're that guy. You can't play this role. We just remember you in this role. We're never going to let you grow, get outside up. You are typecast. So Sam Darnold is typecast as the guy who turns it over. No matter what he does, no matter what he did with Minnesota, so he had a whole body of work with the Vikings. But you remember that one night where he was a pumpkin. So that's how it gets to him. I remember it well. Yeah. No matter what he did in the postseason for the Seahawks, didn't turn it over, won a Super Bowl. But you're that guy. So on that list of most turnovers, you've got Sam Darnold there with nine. The other three guys in second place are all considered franchise quarterbacks. You got Josh Allen, you got Drake May, you got Justin Herbert, and Sam Darnold's not. So they get some leniency that you got them. Hey, hey, easy, buddy. Hey, hey, easy, buddy. Justin Herbert, franchise quarterback, did you just wake up from passing out that day back in August? Too soon. Too soon. Did you go there? That's a great lie. That's a great lie. Don't tell you. But he is. Now, Mike, I don't go hard in the pain for Justin Herbert like others do. Others, some people love Justin Herbert. I'm not that guy, but I will say he is considered a franchise quarterback, even though his team is 0-5. Sam Darnold hasn't been considered a franchise quarterback in nearly 10 years. He was probably considered a franchise quarterback the day he was drafted, and then shortly after that, he got into that little typecast category. The other guys, people are not as harsh on them as they are on Sam Darnold, and so, what is he? Is this what Sam, is Sam Darnold, is he ultimately going to be a guy who can play good football 80% of the time, 85% of the time, and you'll be happy with it, but the 15% will be so disastrous and so egregious, you'll think, why did we sign this guy in the first place? Well, and it felt like an experiment when they signed him. They were the only team that was serious about making him their starter. Think about that. We have this game of quarterback carousel that unfolds after every season now, where there are veteran quarterbacks, because teams are willing. See, it used to be when you had a guy who was pass versus fail, even if it was a D minus, you held on to him. There was a fear in letting go of a guy who was good enough, but not great. Starting about six or seven years ago, teams began to be more willing to part ways with veteran quarterbacks in search of someone better. So as part of this annual ritual, Sam Darnold's available, Vikings aren't bringing him back. There wasn't a land rush like when Peyton Manning became available as a free agent in 2012 and they were lining up out the door. Everybody wanted to take a meeting with Peyton Manning. Sam Darnold had one option, one option, Seahawks. They paid him a respectable quarterback contract that was designed to give them an escape hatch after one year if they wanted to take it. Obviously, they didn't. Then after two years, there's another escape hatch that they may take. So they'll move on if they have to. They'll move on and they'll find another quarterback. They've got a defense that is good enough to help them attract another quarterback if they're looking to get a free agent. It's that simple. They will do it. And this is all relevant because of what we're seeing. And I do a spot every Wednesday on KJR. Mentioned this yesterday. They asked me out of the blue on Wednesday night. I do it every Wednesday at 610 Eastern, 310 Pacific. Yeah, they asked me if Drew Locke should play. Well, this is Sam Darnold. And I was surprised and I said, no, I said, no, I said, not yet. Not yet. But you know what? After last night, after last night, got to have the conversation. Need to have the conversation internally. Need to do the assessment internally. Need to go back and look at the film from when Drew Locke played. Because Drew Locke came in and won the game over the Patriots. Drew Locke beat the Cardinals. And that accelerated the healing of Sam Darnold's ass. Nothing accelerates the healing of an injury faster than the backup coming in and playing well. So... And I don't know, can you bench a guy and put him back on the field? Well, the Panthers did it with Bryce Young, and he's better than ever. So I think some of the old ways of thinking about the quarterback position need to go the way of the dodo bird. But you just got to do what's right for a team that is feeling the season slip away, sinking in the standings, looking up at the 49ers, and realizing this year isn't like last year. So instead of trying to go next level, how about same level? Why don't we just try to do what we did last year? Because last year worked out pretty well. You don't need to become a franchise quarterback, Sam Darnold, just be the guy you were last year. Just be that guy, be content to be that guy. Do you really need to have all of these plaudits? Do you need, would you rather be franchise quarterback Justin Herbert on a bad team or non-franchise quarterback Sam Darnold on a dynasty? What would you rather be, Michael? Well, I'd rather be Sam Darnold saying, okay, you want me to be the guy I was last year? Could you go to Kansas City and bring back Kenneth Walker III for me? Can you do that? Because that's part of the reason he can't do it. Now, look, his turnovers, the way he's seeing it and the way he's reading it, that is a big part of the problem. I'd say it's probably more than half the problem, that he's just not seeing it the way he should. But they can't go back to last year because they don't have last year's personnel, and this is, I hope, God, please, I hope that the Seahawks and other franchises realize this. Running backs are not interchangeable. You can't just get a running back and just be fine. It's a position, that's fine. We don't need this guy. Yes, you do. Some of them are special. Some of them have skill sets that you can't just go out and pick up the market and just keep going as you were. And so I think the Seahawks know now, Kenneth Walker III was pretty special. Some of the things he could do for that offense, and I don't want to leave out Charbonne. They didn't make a decision on Charbonne. Charbonne's hurt. But the Charbonne-Walker combination really was a great engine for the offense that opened up things for JSN and opened up things for Cooper Cupp. And we haven't even mentioned him, by the way. Cooper Cupp, you know, it's not, we've got, Smith and Jigba is brilliant. We know what he can do, but we've already mentioned Shaheed, not really living up to the contract. And Cooper Cupp was pretty quiet in that game last night as well. So they've got a few issues there. And the last thing I'll say, Mike, yeah, you're right. The Panthers were able to sit down Bryce Young and get him straightened out, but they were able to say something to him. I'm wondering if the Seahawks would say this to Sam Darnold. Hey, we're sitting you down, but we still believe in you. You're our franchise quarterback. So even though Andy Dalton is going to take over for you for a couple of games, if you do it the right way, we're still invested in you. Do you think Sam, would they say that to Sam Darnold? And would he believe them if they did? I doubt they would say it. And if they did, he wouldn't believe it. Because I think at some level he knows that he's played himself into this position. Now, you mentioned Charbonnet, I'm glad you did because help is on the way. Charbonnet tore the ACL in the division round window over the 49ers, the blowout victory. And that opened the door for Kenneth Walker, the third to have the kind of performances that got the Kansas City Chiefs' attention. And they may think that between Charbonnet and Emmanuel Wilson, that's enough. That's enough of a one-two punch to power the running game. But they just got to get back to the running game and they have to commit to the running game. And it crossed my mind as we were having this conversation, Saquon Barkley could be available between now and the Tuesday after week nine. If you really want to get nuts, if you really want to get desperate, if you really want to make a commitment to the running game, you make a play for Saquon Barkley, Michael. Now, that would be a lot of fun. And Mike, I don't think it's crazy, based on what we've seen from the Philadelphia Eagles this year. Not only are they underperforming, but as we know, they've been very aggressive in kind of remaking the roster. I think Lane Johnson's decision, so Lane Johnson's decision to retire, okay, I think they were a little surprised by that, but then there's Johnson retiring, and then Cam Jurgens, they make that trade. So they pick up a second rounder in that deal for 2028. So we know they've got a first rounder in 2028 from the Patriots, a second rounder in 2028 from the Ravens. Maybe they're like, okay, well, and talk about Jalen Hurts later. We don't know how many games he's going to miss. So maybe they look at it and say, hey, this is a reset year. We didn't think it was. We didn't think 2026 was a reset year. Let's move on from Saquon Barkley and see how much draft capital we can get for him. Let's be dominant in 2028. Maybe we can get another first rounder in 2028 from the Seahawks, two firsts and a second. From other franchises along with our own draft capital. Well, and that is a good spot at which to take a break, close the door for good on talking about last night's game. I do have one more observation though. I don't know if you realize the phrase that you use. It's probably been about five minutes ago. I don't know if you know what you use. It was very fitting to the run PFT vibe that we have created almost two years ago to the day. This whole Track Suit Friday at Satrials is an offshoot of our ill-advised Halloween costumes from Halloween of 2024. Do you remember now what you said that would harken back to the dawn of the run PFT era? Yes, I said, it's tricky, right? Did I say that? I said, it's tricky. It's tricky. And on that note, we'll take a break. It's definitely tricky to navigate the roster right now in Philadelphia. And they have a new issue that came up out of nowhere yesterday, but it didn't really come up out of nowhere. Anybody that had watched PFT Live yesterday or redprofootballtalk.com was not as surprised as those who don't. We'll break it all down next on PFT Live.