Should the Giants name J.J McCarthy starter right NOW? | Week 6 All-22 Film Review

Hey, what do you say, ladies and gentlemen? Dan and I are excited to introduce our Buy Me a Coffee page. We've had a lot of listeners reach out and say, Hey there, bub, we really appreciate what you do and want to support the show. Well, here's one way to do that without big corporations taking, I don't know, 30% of the cut of your generosity. Just head over to www.buymeacoffee.com/bigbluebanter and chip in if you'd like to support us directly. Every contribution means a lot and it helps keep the show going strong. We appreciate each and every one of you. Thanks for listening and have a lovely day. Welcome back. It's the Big Blue Banter New York Giants Football Podcast. I'm Dan Schneier. Joined us by cohost Nick Falato. And today we're here to break down the Giants offense on all 22 coaches' film from their week six loss to the New Orleans Saints. We will also, of course, debate the question that JohnHarbaugh was asked today and told reporters, I got no answer for you, at least not yet, because he's debating it as well with his coaching staff, who will be the starting quarterback when the Giants play the Houston Texans in Houston this coming Sunday, right before their bye week, and possibly without both starting offensive tackles. Not definitely, but possibly without both starting offensive tackles. It's a big question that he's going to have to answer. And so, you know, maybe we start there, Nick. I want to get a feel for, we talked about it last night. And I don't really want to get a feel from you for what you think they will do. I want to get a feel from you on what you would do after watching the tape of JJ. McCarthy. And if you feel like it's sufficient enough tape, if you feel like, and I don't mean that from his production standpoint, I mean that from like, is that really a true indicator of what should be the decision for this Sunday? Anything really that goes into what would make that decision easier for you. Did you feel any clarity after watching this tape? Not necessarily, no. I think what JohnHarbaugh said after the game, which we said on the podcast, is a ring is true. It's just this wasn't a neutral game script. This was a much different type of situation where the Giants were just uncorking it and letting it rip because they were down multiple scores, right? And JJ., look, some of those throws were high level throws. He's still has, he's not the savior, right? JJ still has, I still have my reservations about JJ. McCarthy, with how he throws the football. I think it jumps out of his hand, the velocity is out of his world, it seems like, right? Relative to some of the other quarterbacks that we've watched be backups for the New York Giants, BAL jumps out of his freaking hand, but doesn't really vary his touch all that much, man. That shit is a direct pass and he did, and I'm not trying to chastise him or take anything away from what he accomplished because I do find it to be very impressive. I'm just trying to provide context of my opinions of what I saw. Some of those balls were, one was tipped up in the air by Charlie Jones just came down with it. That was a ball that could easily have been intercepted. And then the other two were, well, the one, the 20-yard pass to the likely was just sensational. But then the touchdown pass to the likely, that's a great job by McCarthy delivering a catchable ball to an elite tight end. And I don't use that. That was the one that I actually think he did vary the tempo on a little bit. Yes, a little bit, yes, but like you're putting it into a position where you're really relying on your tight end to make a play and he made a play and that's great. And I, just circle back to your question just generally speaking on, I think he did enough because Jameis hasn't done anything similar to like what John Harbaugh was saying about the running back situation where he was getting flustered with the media and he was like, nobody stepped up, nobody has seized anything. Like Jameis hasn't seized this. Like Jameis had so many plays where it was back breaking because it's like a second and eight and this is an easy first down and he just throws it two feet behind Isaiah Likely or three feet over the head of Darnell Mooney. Like the inaccuracy inconsistency of Jameis Winston is wearing that. Now it just comes down to, are you comfortable enough to ride with JJ McCarthy into Houston? And I think JJ has done enough, but Jameis also hasn't done enough to earn another start, right? So that's kind of where I'm sitting at, but I don't want to sit on a fence here, Dan, but I could talk myself into both of these, both of those decisions. And I'm sure the coaching staff is going over that as we speak. I can talk myself into the pros and cons of Jameis Winston starting and the pros and cons of Jameis Winston starting. But if you were to ask me, has JJ done enough to take the job from Jameis Winston? Sure, because Jameis Winston has looked like crap through much of what we've seen from him, then he goes into the Jameis Winston experience and throws for 250 and 3. Which is there at any point and still would be. I don't think it's totally limited to that for me, Nick. I think Jameis can actually work through a progression. Now, he's not always good at it. Like you said, there are times where he worked through it and still, or I shouldn't even say that. There are times to me, twice at least in this game that I have in my notes where he needs to see it faster and he took sacks that should have never been sacks, just never been sacks that killed these drives, Jameis. And twice there were open receivers. Once, yes, the Giants ran a similar route, like two Giants ran a similar round. People are chastising for them for that. Obviously, it was a mess up. Like we used to see that a ton with like Jason Garrett. And one of them was Charlie Jones, who has been here for like three minutes and doesn't run. But even then, like if the ball's out quick, you can either hit the drag with neighbors coming later if you anticipate it or either of those two route, those spot, those stick routes are like available to him, but he's holding, holding. And this wasn't the first time I noted that at least one of the time on tape where it was likely the other time where it likely breaks over the middle, he's open and Jamis doesn't see him and Jamis takes the sack. He puts his head down. He looks at the pass rush. He takes the sack and that doesn't even include all the times he just misses, throws downright accuracy issues like the ball placement is just off for some reason. For you know, among quarterbacks pretty consistently, the charting suggests this as well. I talked about this either yesterday on the podcast, Nick, or on Today's Beyond the Boxscore, the charting has been bad for Jamus among all quarterbacks from an accuracy standpoint. When it's good, it's good. When it's bad, it's really bad. So I think to your point, that's part of the reason why I'm open to this. Now, I will say this. It really does come down to what you mentioned yesterday, Nick, which is how comfortable they feel with JJ's ability to command the offense and understand his understanding of the playbook. Because you can't just chuck him in there if he's just limited to certain packages or you don't feel comfortable doing everything against a defense like Houston. Because I will say this. If you're asking me, am I more encouraged or less encouraged after watching JJ's tape versus the broadcast, I would say no real different. And I would say if anything, maybe this is going to sound crazy, but maybe a little bit discouraged in the sense that I already knew all these things from watching the broadcast. He's thrown with great velocity. He made a few big time throws. He escaped the pocket better than James. He managed the pocket, but what I didn't know until I watched the tape was it was mostly all first read shit, man. This is what I read from every Vikings person. And then my friend Thomas, who's the producer for FFT, told me this is what the story was with the Vikings. He's a first read quarterback and he locks on to his first read. It was all first read. Now that's partly because they're playing comeback mode, but he is just locking on to first read. Jameis at least went through progressions to some extent. And then also I still feel like JJ has that same issue and it reared its ugly head when he was trying to throw an outpass to the left of not really having good accuracy throwing to his left. It didn't really look good. That was a good play by Emerson too. But it was a good play, but it was a shit throw too. It died and it was inside. And I just feel like the outs are not, the outpasses are not there. Not that they were literally there with Jameis either. But on the flip side of that Nick, I think that against these two defensive ends, Will Anderson and Danil Hunter, in a dome on the road where they're going to be loud, I kind of want him in there because he's going to escape the pressure better, right? And he's going to be able to scramble and you can't play as much man because he'll run. And you know, that's also a factor for me. And it's like he makes explosive plays with his arm. He cuts through the, he's a great thrower from a velocity standpoint. And Jameis makes enough mistakes, Nick, that it's like, I don't even feel good about being like, well, Jameis can at least run the offense better. I'm not going to lock on to the first read because he's just makes all these other stupid errors when it comes to taking dumb sacks. He shouldn't, in my opinion, Jameis and just random misses. The misses over the middle of the field had been the random, the random, like it's a footwork issue. It's an orientation, but it's issues that you don't expect a 10 year veteran to have because there are times where James Winston will get the snap and then he'll do his James dance back there where he steps forward, tucks the ball into his torso, dips his head and then pops back up like a fricking like a like a meerkat or something. And then fires the football over the middle of the field. And sometimes those are accurate and you're like, oh, that's such a good James. But and then there are times where he's just, oh, I got the snap or the pockets pretty clean. Oh, I got an open guy over the middle of the field. And let me just and then I'm going to throw three feet behind his fricking head. That's happening every fricking game that James Winston has started, dude. And that has worn thin at this point because it's a drive killer, dude, Matt. Like, dude, again, say what you want about Matt. Like, Matt Nagy has designed plays where guys are getting open. Like, I thought Matt Nagy did a great job and the protection did a great job for JJ McCarthy. Like, the pockets were held up and the Giants did a good job keeping Tyrone Tracy Jr. and Thomas Vedone in three by one nub with Vedone as a nub, keeping and helping Marcus Bow out, who struggled for much of the game. They didn't have Andrew Thomas. JC. Davis came in and I felt like he looked damn good considering the situation and the circumstances. And the Giants provided pockets for JJ. McCarthy to throw into. And they were manipulating those deep, whether it was cover four or cover three, they were manipulating those safeties on the back end with Malik, Neighbors and Isaiah, likely. And that allowed JJ. McCarthy to read that safety and then attack the conflict defender. And it was simple concepts, simple reads for JJ. McCarthy, but McCarthy was delivering on those simple reads. But I wanted to give a lot of credit to the protection of the Giants and MattNagy for designing plays that were working. They were taking advantage of that Saints defense, of that Brennan Staley defense. And they were allowing this backup quarterback to hit these 40-yard bombs down the football field. But to circle it back to Jamis, there are plays on like second and seven or second and nine, because the Giants can't run the football, second and ten, where Jamis has this easy six, seven, eight yards that could possibly turn into 20 if Isaiah Lightley or Malik neighbors make someone miss. And he just can't complete the pass. And that is a back breaking, that is a back breaking reality that this Giants offense is dealing with. They can't run the football. You need to be able to make your layup throws. And Jamis Winston just can't right now. Yeah, he doesn't make the layups. He makes the big time throws. And he gets hot at times. Like we had him as our best player on tape last week, Jamis Winston. That's not based on us getting hyped about a player or giving some kind of bullshit narrative. It's just based on what the tape showed. He had a phenomenal game last week in the second half, obviously, but it was just enough. Like throwing for 303 TDs is enough to make up for a bad first half because it's so insane in one half. And JJ almost did that in one quarter throwing 248. But I want to touch on something that I think is wrong from the chat where Lars, or it wasn't Lars, 51 Disco says JJ had no problem throwing to his left in college. I actually have the stats because I have my JJ film review. I forgot who these were courtesy of because now it doesn't have it. But I apologize for that. But on throws of 10 or more air yards in college at Michigan and outside the numbers, these are the throws I'm talking about. 10 or more air yards outside the numbers, like the outpass that was almost intercepted from JJ McCarthy, but it was called back or whatever it was. McCarthy's completion percentage dropped from 56.2 to 42.6 to his left. Okay, so you're just wrong in the chat. You're just dead wrong. His efficiency went from 205.4 to 144, throwing to his left. His drop back success rate 56.2 to 42.6 percent. His first towns per attempt throwing to his left, 53.4 to 39.7 percent. And just watch the tape. You can see it. So that was just wrong. And I felt like I think he might be just like being sarcastic because it was a talking point coming out of college that JJ McCarthy couldn't throw the football well to his left, if I remember correctly, from his college days. We just watched it, Nick. We just go by what we watched. It looked a lot worse throwing to his left. And generally speaking, I don't think he throws a good outpass in general, right or left, but that's another story for another day. But more importantly, I think a big reason why I'm also more willing to make this move now, Nick, is the fact that you can't just punt the game, in my mind, against the Texans. You can't just go into this thing at three, two, and one, being like, whatever, we'll just play, you know, it is what it is. We're not gonna beat this team. We're eight-point dogs, where they're playing good football right now. It's over. Let's go to the bi-week limping in there, because this division is still up for grabs and you need to try to win it. And to try to win this game, to me, Nick, the only way to really win it is to try to run the ball. And I know that sucks because we can't run the ball, but I think the Giants will have a much better chance to run the ball in this game if J.J's at quarterback. And that's just the general, like, no, in fact, we know if JJ gets in there, what's gonna happen, Nick? Roman's gonna design a whole game plan. Nagy and Roman are gonna design a whole game plan with a ton of this zone-read stuff, a ton of this quarterback-keeping, quarterback-not-keeping. Bring back the RPO. Bring back the RPO we saw from week one, the misdirection, the motion pre-snap. All that's gonna help the run game to a massive extent, to be quite honest. And so that's a big factor in why I think you maybe make that decision now. Yeah, and I can easily see that as well. I think it's also you go into Houston with an element of surprise, right? It's a mystery, because the Houston Texans don't exactly know what the Giants will look like with JJ. McCarthy running with the GregRoman and MattNagy scheme. My thing is, though, I know JJ really impressed. As much as Jameis has struggled, I don't necessarily trust JJ. McCarthy right now when it comes to running that neutral game script, quick game operation. You get to your second read, get the football out, and you're going up against again. This is a hostile environment where communication is going to be an issue with a new playbook. And that's where those little annoying details are why I lean Jameis. But I can completely understand why they would want to go with JJ. McCarthy. And that's why a lot of it is like trust within the building of what you believe you have with JJ. And I agree with the merit of everything you just said, Dan. If you go in, like you don't want to like you're 100% right, too. That's why it is a decision, acting like it's not a decision. I tweeted about last night like this is the stupidest thing I've heard. It's no decision. You obviously go to JJ. And it's like, well, no, because can JJ run the offense? Is he going to be able to communicate and command the offense in a dome, in a loud environment? He's going to be able to get off his first three because he really didn't on tape, even though he threw for 248 despite it. It didn't matter. And he didn't do it with Minnesota. And so it's not the easiest decision in the world. On paper, the ceiling is clearly there to start JJ. Like if you ask me right now, are we going to beat the Texans with Jamis? I'll say no. Are we going to beat the Texans with JJ.? Probably not. But there's definitely a better chance. And I think that, to me, plays a factor. Wow. That's how low we're at right now, though, too, right? Yeah. Things are not good right now after this week. I mean, even though it was a weird game tape, I felt like on defense, like the Giants played well until they didn't. And then even once they didn't, they started to play well again at the end. They just like to me, it's just like the run game totally killed them. That was the if you ask me, what was the story of this game? It's the Giants run defense in the second half completely collapse in and of itself. And it allowed the Saints weren't doing anything on offense until they got the run game going. Before that, they were on one dimensional and non-existent in that one dimension. And dude, it's not like they did anything crazy. They were just- No, nothing. They were moving people, dude. I tweeted about it, like a couple clips out. I really recognize how bad the Giants run blocking is when I watch other teams. The Saints are moving our line. Now, to be fair, it's usually when the Giants take Reader off the field. And when they take Harness off the field, which is what it is, and it's the same problem we've had in the past. There was one play where it was Jameson Travis and Alexander lined up at DT, and they just got fucking moved, dude. Those two? Oh, gee, every time I saw 97 and 91 out there, I was like, no, not this. Yeah, and it's not their fault. They're rookies, they're young, and Jameson Travis had some nice plays, I thought, outside of the bad ones. But it is what it is, man. They have to just keep adding at de-tackle, over and over, just hammering it home. They don't have that many draft picks, but just scour free agency next offseason. Yeah, dude. I mean, to be honest, Harris has been very good and the reader has been, like, sensational. But everything behind them, you can't trust. You just can't trust those guys out there. There was a play where Darius Alexander, like, he, I think he was facing somebody, and that person blocked down on Jameson Travis, and then somebody blocked him, like a guard blocked him to where he didn't expect it. And he just got, like, washed, washed down the line of scrimmage. And I'm just like, you can't put him out here to be a run defender. He can't defend the run. But at the same time, like, you don't notice that really ever happening for us, right? That's kind of what I was drawing on. Like, we don't wash people down. We're not moving bodies. We're unwashed. We're unwashed. And, like, why am I every time I put on the All 22 every week and watch you the Giants are playing their offensive line? Not every time. But a lot of these offensive lines are able to move bodies, move when it's not Reader or Harris. But when we get out there, all of a sudden, nobody can move anybody. Like, all due respect to Brian Hudson. I'm not a fan of this guy moving forward as our starter. I need to get something better at the pivot. Like, I need somebody who can... And the same goes for Runyon. And right now, CC is playing terrible. Let's be honest about the situation. It sucks. He's not playing well, dude. I hope he's going to get better. And he's playing hurt, I think, too. But those three guys, you just can't have a consistent run game with those three guys. No, you're right, man. And the CC one... The offensive line in general, from a run blocking standpoint, has been an abject disaster, right? Nightmare. I mean, how many times you see Marcus Bowe get destroyed at the point of contact? I saw at least two times where he got buried and broke the whole run play from the start. It's crazy, man. Like, Germain O'Luminor... The guy was invaluable to the Giants. We didn't know it on the run game. It's apparently true. No, yes, because again, the Cam Scataboo fumble, like, obviously, you ultimately blame Cam Scataboo, but that happened because Marcus Bowe got discarded like a piece of trash by Durant. And that happened at least twice in this game, too. Yeah. I tweeted them both out. Yeah. Bowe... Look, dude, Bowe... Like, there were a few plays where the Giants would spring something to the outside and they would get Bowe out in space. And I'm watching this, like, 305-pound guy just trudging along in space. I'm like, dude, his feet are light as a feather. He moves so well. He's so fluid. This is excellent. And there's such an appeal to having an offensive lineman like Marcus Bowe because of that. But his strength issues are just so... It's a lot to overcome because there's going to be a handful of plays where he's not perfect with how he frames it. And the defense gives him some sort of move to where he gets his feet tangled up and then he gets put on his ass. And that happened, yes, like three or four times in this game. We just can't have it. And I think we have one right here. Now, I just put this one up. This is a bad look for him. The summer is gone, but don't you worry because football season is heating up and prize picks is bringing you closer to all the action. With prize picks, you can make your own player picks, follow player projections and build your lineup all in one place. Whether you're keeping an eye on Derek Henry's touchdowns or Josh Allen's fantasy scores, there are plenty of ways to get involved and make every game more exciting. 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And it kills the whole run play, and then it kills the whole drive. Yeah. And then the other one was with Singletary. Yeah. It was another one where it just, again, just kills the whole, and these are like first intends, or you're getting you in these like horrible, look at that one. Yeah, man. And I'm wanting like, you know. He's getting buried to the ground there. I know. He gets too high in the contact, and then he gets driven like this is something, he had a few in past protection that were like this too, Dan, where he just got absolutely destroyed at the point of attack. It sucks, dude, because I see the upside of Marcus Bowe, but if you're doing that and you're blowing plays up, and you're putting yourself behind the sticks consistently, we can't have you out there, dude. On the flip side, JC. Davis, and again, this was towards the end of the game when Andrew Thomas walked out, was pretty freaking damn good out there, dude. A lot of it was past protection, so keep that in mind. Right, it was good. But it was encouraging for his development to see him go in there at left tackle and keep the pocket intact with a little bit of help, of course, but still, he comported himself well, for sure. He looked good, obviously, we don't know where he'll be in the run game, really. We didn't really run the ball once he got into the game very often, but he definitely looked good in past protection, and I'm curious where they'll go if Andrew Thomas does play in this game, which it sounds like he certainly wants to, given his comments after the game, about why he wasn't drawn back. He's a dog, dude. I want to take some time. We don't talk about it enough because it's been so consistent since basically he's been here other than his rookie season. Andrew Thomas is so good, dude. So good at football. So fun to watch. Even when he's not healthy. Even when he's not, there's just some plays where I watch him, and how he creates the seal on the edge. It's just like, God darn, man. That is like, he moves so well, understands the angle so well, is strong, has a wide base, knows how to readjust, understands leverage. Just an absolute phenomenal player to watch week in and week out, Andrew Thomas. Even her. And I think great point here by Flying Horse Guy, who says JC. Davis' down block on Tracy's touchdown was great. That's a good point. That was a really good block on the Tracy's touchdown in the run game. There's scratching for anything they can get. Great job by Tracy on that touchdown run. That's what actual, you want to be, oh, Naji moves the pile. No. Naji gets stood up and goes nowhere. That's what moving the pile and getting an extra yards is. Tyrone Tracy there gets stopped up and has the contact balance and strength to actually get another two yards and score that touchdown. It's what real actual after contact upside looks like. It just, it should just be Tracy and Scadaboo moving forward. And in Singletary to me, I didn't think had a great game either running the ball. Obviously, he had a nice screen out there with the 19-yard gain, but there was a couple of cutback lanes I thought he missed. No, Singletary, I don't know, man. Singletary helped spark the comeback, but then JJ threw the interception on that drive. But the one rush that he had that I can't remember what it went for. But then he had the 19-yard catch on the screen where JJ got rid of the football, just get your quarterback going, get him comfortable. And Singletary took advantage of over pursuing defenders, cut that shit back inside and ran towards block and picked up 19 yards, which is a damn good move. But I tend to agree, like Tracy, dude, phenomenal in pass protection in this game. Some of those pass blocking reps that he had were just insane. Hopefully, the coaches noticed that. Yeah, it was crazy, really. And then I'm done with the nausea experiment. I'm glad you're there with me. It's painful to watch him play football, for me at least. I mean, that third and two was just nuts to me. Like, it just takes him so... When he's going on a pitch play, it takes him so long to get going. Like, what am I getting out of this? He's running in mud. But I don't... Yeah, I don't want to get back into that. I'm just hoping that ends at some point for my sake and for all of our sake. I think it will. I think it will, dude. And look, it's not like the Giants aren't trying different shit at running the football. I know. Like, you know they're getting... I don't want to say desperate, but they're just trying to find solutions. And the solution in this game was, hey, let's align and shotgun, and then we're going to use like a pony type of package. And if it is still 12 or 13 personnel or whatever, we're going to put Isaiah Likely in the backfield, like Isaiah Likely. And we have Cam Scataboo as a fullback. So we were operating shotgun. No, no, it didn't. But they're trying different shit. Like they're running pony package, like shotgun split back looks and trying to run counter off of it. That was like the big... Dude, one thing I'll say, and this is like every coaching staff, but it's very... I think it's more noticeable than the Dable coaching staff. Every week, there's a different red zone addendum. Now, is this because the Giants suck in the red zone and they can't score or is this game planning? I think it's a little column A and it's a little column B, but this one was, hey, we're going to line up and split back shotgun and we're going to try to run the football out of that. That was the red zone addendum that they used in the first half and didn't really work all that well because they didn't score. I mean, you could say they scored in the red zone with Tyrone Tracy Jr. But those plays didn't necessarily work as they would have. Those were individual plays, right? Yes. Tyrone Tracy Jr. James, good job finding the mismatch of Pete Warner against Tracy Jr. And Tracy Jr., the thing I was so impressed about with him on that play was he had to adjust to that football. That's what I'm saying. He had to adjust and then get north. And it stopped his momentum completely. He had to restart his momentum. Yeah. And Pete Warner, look, he's not like an athletic linebacker, but he's a pretty damn good linebacker. It doesn't even matter who's out there at that point. When you get your momentum completely stopped like that and you get the edge, it's tough. You have to have really good athleticism. Some of the adjustments by these giant skill position players in this game, it was some of the best adjustments I've seen collectively for one game in a while. It's a shame they didn't win. The adjustment that likely made in the end zone on the touchdown is insane. The adjustment on the first big completion by JJ. Which again, we're talking about JJ McCarthy. That could have been a touchdown if that's lead outside. Which one, the 47 yarder to the right side of the field or the one coming back to the left? The one coming back to the left. The first big completion. Yeah, that could have been. I think both could have been touchdowns if it was lead into space, but we never see that. That's not like... I always ask that out of Jones. It never happened. The 49 yarder to neighbors still, that was like a pisser on a line and he put it outside of the... I thought the ball placement was pretty good for JJ McCarthy on that one. It made it a difficult catch for sure. But the other one, MalikNeighborz, I think it was like a 20-something yard game, had to spin around and then adjust his body, make that catch. And if that was just laid towards the numbers, I think MalikNeighborz runs underneath it because the safety was occupied with Charlie Jones' deep horizontal crossing route. You had a clear out and then you had two deep horizontal cross. This is a route that we've seen every game by the Giants. It's their deep concept. But it works because it puts a safety in a conflict. The safety carried Charlie Jones and was like, Ah, shit, here comes MalikNeighborz from the back side on that cross. Nobody was there because all those middle hook defenders were underneath on Isaiah Likely and Tyrone Tracy Jr. I think it was just chip-blocking. We have well to play. We'll go over it here. No, it's a great point. I think what's interesting about that to me is we can go over. I mean, we're getting sidetracked a little here, but it's OK. It's all interesting conversation. Whole of the Giants opportunities to me, Nick, this year, a lot of their opportunities on the deep vertical plays are in between the hashes, which I think actually would have fit Jackson Dart's skills. Oh, Jackson Dart struggled so much as a vertical thrower last year. Yeah, but a lot of those throws were charted outside the numbers and outside the hashes. These types of throws, I wonder if Dart can lead him into space and make that throw and make it so the receiver can run under it. Because I saw a few of them. We saw the Slayton ball last year, the dropped against the commanders, I believe, the second commander's game, where Dart kind of led him into space and Slayton ran under it, but he just couldn't catch it. Among a few others, and I watched a quarterback last night like Jordan Love. That's what I mean by leading into space. The Love actually puts air under that football and the receivers can kind of run under it. Dude, Love is a phenomenal thrower in football. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves as a thrower. Well, yeah, he doesn't because they haven't won anything. Yeah, no, but he's fun to watch. Whenever the Packers are on an island game, I'm like, oh, sweet, I get to watch him. He's doing it with a horrific offensive line right now, too. I know, and those two receivers, I'm a big fan of, too, Matthew Golden, even though they sucked yesterday, they dropped him. Well, they had some drops, but they also got hoping. That was the thing Jacob and I talk about. Yeah, we talked about it in today's episode. Yeah, the drops are frustrating, but he's also getting open and uncovering every play. Like, that has to be factored in. When you kill people for drops, it's like, all right, but are they getting open? Yeah. Yeah. Because other guys don't. That's the thing. Yes. The Giants had some guys open in this game, too. Giants are always open this year. We're always running open, it feels like. And sometimes it's because the play breaks down and I just think we have skilled players. And it's also the concentration of targets that the Giants have with Likely and Sabres makes the defense just hyper focus on them. So you basically have one on one matchups with the other guys. And I just I think Darnold Mooney, I feel his frustration. Me too. Because that dude is open. That dude is not bad at playing wide receiver in the NFL. And he's in a contract year and he's not he doesn't have any. He's gonna have to sign like a 2.5 million like boohoo. That's a nice deal. But like he could be in line. I think his skill set is more deserving of that. And he's like 29 years old. But he's running open a lot of the time. You see him kind of do that little like skip at the end. And then he's open over the middle of field. Jamis throws him a hospital ball. He gets decked and he gets a neck injury. And it's just like, dude, this is like socks, you know? I think it's a neck injury. I'm not 100% sure. It does suck. Like he's he's he is creating separation more than one would imagine by watching just broadcast. On the flip side, I completely agree that on the flip side of that, two pretty crazy good concentration catches from Charlie Jones in replacing him, the one by the sideline that was low and away from JJ was not a great throw. And then the other one where JJ's kind of rear back and chucked it up toward the spot. And like that was a pretty good play by Jones to like have it tipped and like caught. It was a great play by Jones. You know, that's in Jones' wheelhouse. But Jones' guys as receivers, I know that people are hating on him as a returner, which is fair after the fumble. Yeah, no, I mean, you can't fumble the football like that. I mean, if anybody learned that as Cam Scadaboo, who we didn't see, might have been able to use in this game. But we faced a lot of middle of the field closed in this game, a lot of cover three, some cover one, it was like 71%, I think, right, snap. And then when they were in like too high, they were also a decent amount of cover six snaps. Giants still couldn't run the football. But we upped our motion, we ran a lot of motion and we're trying to displace and gain any sort of leverage that we can, any sort of spatial advantage, mathematical advantage the Giants can get by removing a defender from the box by using pre-snap motion, the Giants are trying. They motioned, I think, 62% in this game and their average through five weeks was 55%. But it's still, man, a lot of those jet motions, right? And then the Giants hit on the end of round after showing something like that throughout the game, the end of round that was their longest rush other than JJ McCarthy's, the one that went for 20 yards. And by longest rush, I mean more rushing yards on that one play for Darnold Mooney than any other run it's at. It's just, man, it sucks not being able to run the ball like this, man. It's crazy, man. And it also substantiates all of the rumors or doesn't make the rumors true. Let me make that clear. But it does provide the coaching staff and the desire for the Giants to add a top running back. It gives them, you know, hey, they knew what they were talking about. To an extent, dude, but like, yes, there are definitely moments. And I tweeted one of them where like, I know it's like outside zone, but like, dude, Singletary can easily just like step with that linebacker who's flowing with him and then quickly plant and hit the cutback lane. It's wide open up the A gap, but he just like doesn't see. And I just feel like there are some moments where the running backs vision is is stopping this run game. But for the most part to me, Nick, it's the offensive line. Like right now, for example, you trade for Jonathan Taylor. Let's say the Giants traded their second round pick for Taylor. I think Taylor is going to be super frustrated. I think our run game is still going to suck. And I like we'll have some big plays occasionally. But Taylor doesn't fix your run game. You need to move bodies, the point of attack, which we don't do. I agree. But getting a player like that makes, I think, just makes you not as one dimensional as the Giants are. It could help your offense overall, but I don't know if it helps your run game specifically. I think, I mean, I think it would just because there's going to be those singles or those groundouts that will turn into singles and things like that. I shouldn't say it doesn't help your run game. I should say it doesn't fix your run game. Yes, that I agree with. I just think it's easier to locate that running back than it is the offensive line. I'll be at the offensive line. Agreed, yeah. It is more important, but getting that running back I think just allows your offense to be more even because it's so unbalanced right now. They can only pass the football with a quarterback who's historically inaccurate and reckless when it comes to challenging windows. Then the other quarterback is a quarterback who got laughed out of Minnesota and is a young player. It's just like it's not a great place to be. I almost feel like going to JJ will help their run game to meet almost any other move they can make at this point unless it was the trade for Quintin Nelson and just trade away Runyon for a pick swap or something, get him off the roster. But no one's really going to trade for that contract probably anyway, so they're kind of stuck, I think, with Runyon. But to me, that would give them a better chance. I still don't think it would do it because the rest of the offensive line is struggling to move bodies as well. You can't just have one guy who can move people. To me, that's the biggest problem watching the Giants run game. There's just no movement at the point of attack almost ever, it feels like. I know, man. This season, Andrew Thomas does this thing, CeCe has blocks where he does this thing, but he's looked bad in the last three weeks, guys. I got slammed on Twitter last week for saying it. Of course, but now it's kind of- But I'm just like, dude, I'm not going off pro football focus, I'm watching the game. I'm seeing him get beat. I'm seeing drives that looked promising get ended because CeCe Malionoa couldn't execute a block, a simple block, and he's getting beat around his edge. Seems like he's a little overwhelmed at the moment. I'm not out on him. It's just, it is what it is. I was encouraged by him the first three weeks or two weeks, and then it's been downhill since though. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah, man. But yeah, the Giants are trying different stuff. It's not working when it comes to running the football, but they remain an exciting team for sure, and an exciting team that is still very resilient. I'm not going to sit here and say they're the most well-coached team because there are errors that are frustrating. Like I've seen Dougie Analytics talk about this on Twitter, and I didn't pick up on it on the... There's been like three or four snaps where the Giants... That we've caught that where the Giants have been... Had 10 guys in our special teams units, like stuff like that needs to be... You can't be having that when you're a buttoned up type... Because this isn't the Dable stuff anymore. We need to fix those kind of errors. And when it comes to the defense, talking about on the defensive pod, it's just... Holy shit, man. They were just not gap sound at all. They just kept chasing, and they were just getting washed out of the point of attack, and everyone was scrambling, and they weren't where they were supposed to be. And this was on all three levels. This wasn't just the defensive line. This was the secondary. This was Drew Phillips, who I felt like had a good game, but he got out leveraged a few times. This was the linebackers. This was the safeties. That can't happen. You need to be able to keep the structure of the defense intact. And these simple stretch zone runs were just kicking their ass in the third quarter. They were moving people to point of attack a lot of the time. That's really what it is. It comes down to you. You got to get the movement up front if you want to run game. You can't just bring in, in my mind, you can't just bring in any star running back and expect to get it better. I mean, we live this, right, guys? We had Saquon Barkley here and we had horrible run games with Saquon Barkley for almost every year of Saquon Barkley. We know what this is, like, in my mind at least. But you know, it is what it is. We'll see what happens there, Nick. I don't have too much hope for this run game, though I do feel like they're going to get a major boost when they turn to McCarthy, just because they're going to do all that junk with like the, you know, RPOs and he's keeping the ball. And then it just requires just a little bit of agitation, which sometimes is all you need. I think that's what the Giants need, just to not have the defense be so quick to fit. Right. And especially when the when you align Malik neighbors as like the number three and he's running that glance route. So it's like, oh, you want to fit. We're going to throw it right behind your head. And neighbors has an angle on your safety, like stuff like that. That could flip games, dude. You're right. I do think we're going to see much more. We haven't really seen much of it at all with James. We've seen a little bit of it, but really not a lot of it at all. You're 100 percent right when they go to JJ. That's going to be a big part of what they do. It should be to some extent. And we've seen them go into the mesh point and everything. So, yeah, I'm looking at some of my other notes before we get into, you know, one thing I did see, I saw Christian Miller step on Marcus Bowe's hand. I don't know. I don't think it was deliberate, but like he's like 30. Yeah, I'm wondering if Bowe's going to pop up in the injury report. I mean, he played through the rest of the game, but it was on the third quarter, 509. It was a second and 10. Bowe got knocked down because he was struggling against Granderson and Jordan, horrible power rushers, which is like, you know, that's something Marcus Bowe was not great at handling. And when he was on the ground, it's all Christian Miller. Don't think it was deliberate, but it was like a full on step. And I saw Bowe just get up and go, shake it out. And I was like, oh, crap, hopefully he's OK if we don't have Jermaine Menor, unless we want to try JC. Davis on the right side. But, you know, that could be something that the Giants will look to do. Yeah, that'd be interesting. Yeah, man. Also, just to start the game, the Giants threw three passes. They wanted to try to get that screen game going. Yeah, they tried two screens right away. Two screens right away. And, dude, the one if it wasn't knocked down by Chase Young. Yeah, that would have been a massive play. They got to get if Chase Young just committed inside. Yeah, he Chase Young looked pretty good in this game, dude. I know he's fully healthy now. Yeah, he's the guy. The other thing I wanted. Sorry, what did you say about Chase Young? I was going to say he's the guy who we thought he was going to be. Let me fix this and fix my screen. I will say the one final thing before we get into the plays. A lot of just stupid penalties still kill this Giants team on offense. Like we're backed up or we have that nausea run to start a draw. Or I'm sorry, it wasn't even a nausea run. I think it was Singletary, the run I showed earlier where Bo gets blown up and the play is dead. It's like two yards. Something happens on second down. It's third and eight, or I'm sorry. It's third and eight, yeah, it's third and eight. Like a totally solvable down. And they take two straight five yard penalties to get the third and 18 and have to check down to Tracy. And this is like mid third quarter when it's like either 17-10 or 24-10. Like they need this drive to get back in the game. They're totally blowing the drive up with these pre-snap penalties and all these mistakes that are just like totally not supposed to be part of a John Harbaugh team, to be completely honest. And I almost feel like you got to blame it on Jameis Winston because we didn't see a lot of this in week one with Jackson Dart. I don't know if that will fix itself with JJ. I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm not sure if it's all Jameis. I mean, I think it's collected. It's also just like Fadone, Marcus Bowe, don't move before the snap, you know? It's individuals just being disciplined with when to go, which is... Yeah, no, that's fair. It's on the players. These five-yard penalties, though, they're backbreaking. They are. Especially back-to-back ones like that because third and eight is manageable. I've seen Jameis convert that all the time this year. Third and 18, you're done. Yeah, even though the Giants have converted a decent amount of third and long plays this year for some reason. Yeah, not 18, though. I feel like it's been between 10 and 20, really. Not right. I want to get some of these plays here. Let's do it. All right. Let's run them. Let's move our stupid faces. And what's going on, everybody? How are we doing? All righty. So we will start with this first third and five Giants run. And dude, this is just good designing, but also just a mix up in coverage by the Saints. They have a bunch formation against man coverage. Run Isaiah Likely underneath who's at Malachi Fields. And then there's just a loss. You press two guys vertical, break one in, break the other out, and then no one covers Isaiah Likely, which is a big problem, because Isaiah Likely is your biggest threat out of those three players easily, but easy first down. I also just like the pocket. You're pressed up against the back of the goal line and you're able to find an easy solution. Jameis reads, reads, reads, finds him come open, understands that he's probably going to be open if this isn't quickly clamped down on. Just easy, take advantage of man coverage assignments. You know what their assignment is, so you can just lean into it and dispute it. Here's a first and 10, 7.26 left in the first quarter. I like this throw by Jameis Winston. It's you're going up against that cover three defense, you're just going to clear out, sit Likely behind Mooney and your neighbors are just going to clear out and you're just going to sit him before the curl flat defender and between the middle hook. And that's a good throw by Jameis Winston. He has a nice confident throw by him here. Under center play action, just rip it towards more so towards like the top of the numbers. So you want to stop him from getting to the curl flat defender, allow Isaiah Likely to catch it, secure it and then get down. So he's, Jameis threw the football, so his guy basically wouldn't get annihilated. And I appreciate that's a good under center play action shot, because the Giants were trying some of these under center play action shots early in this game, which is not a surprise either. Here's just the touchdown to Tyrone Tracy Jr. That's just a great individual effort, dude. Yeah, it really is. He just does a great job of stopping and starting his momentum and having that lateral agility and burst to break away here. Yeah, three, I mean, once he goes through that B gap, he's sitting there, he spins right there, and then he catches spins again, and he just has the acceleration outrun, two linebackers, and the coverage, I mean, I don't know if this is designed this way, but the Giants are able to just run two breaking routes to the left, as you can see here with, they both break out to the left, you have the little pivot route that is never thrown because it's Darnell Mooney and James Winston doesn't like Darnell Mooney, I'm joking. Then you just have Tyrone Tracy Jr. isolated on the outside. Make the catch, make the run, touch down, little twist, a lot of movement up front, the Saints were thrown at the Giants, twist, Runyon ends up picking it up. Good job by James to stand up at the pocket, keep his eyes on his outlet. I think he knew right away what the coverage was looking like and that he would have Tyrone Tracy Jr. Tyrone Tracy Jr. was staying in protection initially, leaked out slow and then seemed like the last second, let me just get rid of it. Yeah, yeah. Oh shit, that guy's open, let me throw it. Here's gonna be a second and seven under center play action shot attempt that results in a sack. James just running around. This is another good example and it wasn't even one I was talking about earlier, just like see it better, like you can hit that in breaker so easily, there's so much space if you anticipate it. Mooney too, man, this could be a long, just like 70 yard touchdown to Darnell Mooney, right? Because watch, you have that safety, safety is gonna bite down below, safety bites right here, and you have an outside leverage defender with his hips facing this way, and Mooney is just going to break this. And you can see the space that he creates, he gets him turned around. Like if Jameis, Jameis is already getting hit by this point and he's already moving in the pocket, so it's almost like moot, because that was a good linebacker blitz by Pete Warner. Yeah. But that's just like, like Mooney is that close, consistent, like to make it like that. Yeah, he's creating that separation. I just think, take the easy money here, to likely. This is just such an eat. He needs to process this so much faster to me. Yeah, he's, I mean, he should, like, you should just be getting the ball and understanding how this, how the, like, rewind it even further back. Yeah. So you're saying throw the football, like, right, right when he sees the blitz, basically. Yeah. When he sees that linebacker safety committing, like, you know, you have likely, and you have space in the middle of the field. Yeah. And take two steps back to your left and throw the football. Yeah. If you throw that, if you throw that ball, you could get it there before that safety gets in your, before he gets in your passing lane. Like, that's why he doesn't throw it ultimately because he's late, he's slow, he's lumbering. And then the safety is in his passing lane. But if you take two steps, shuffle to the opposite way, the left, and he's moving the wrong way, you can create yourself a throwing lane there easily. Yeah. And this is a, this is a good blitz by Staley, that little follow, replace blitz by the linebackers, bring them both and stop, stop the Giants from having success. And that's the type of stuff I feel like McCarthy won't do as much, like lumbering, poor pocket management type stuff. Yeah. Well, hopefully, hopefully, hopefully it doesn't, man. Here's the second and the James wasn't get sacked again. I like the design here against cover. A little fake, that little fake pitch. And then look again, like there's room right here before the safety gets up, but the ball needs to come out. But there's no time because Cici Malionova gets beat. I think it's Cici. We'll see if Cici gets beat really bad. And we get a roughing the passer penalty here. Vernon Broughton or whatever. But like, look, you have Malik neighbors wide open streaking. You have Mooney right here. If the ball could be delivered with touch and pacing over the top of this asshole, this player is here, but no one's on Malik. So Cici blowing his assignment, which you'll see here in a little bit, it just spoils a great play call by MattNagy because of this pitch. Like watch how they all react. Eyes this way. They're stopping their momentum from going backwards. This is a gassed play that the Giants successfully ran that they couldn't capitalize on because Cici failed his execution against like a rookie pass rusher. I think Broughton's a rookie, might be a second year player. You know, it's just like these little mistakes by individuals. I feel like they've worked against the Giants for quite a while. Yeah, I mean, if he holds up there, it's a touchdown. Yeah, it's a touchdown on Malik probably. You could see where Winston is looking. He's like getting ready to throw that ball to Malik. And then we're not talking about Winston being as terrible. You know what I mean? This changes the entire game. This is in the second quarter. The Giants would have ended up going up 14-0 instead of 10 here. We got bailed out by roughing the passer that I'm like, yeah, sure. You know. All right. Let's see. Third and six. It's going to be blitz pressure. I don't know how much he was blitzed, but he was blitzed a decent amount. This is another one where I just want the processing to be faster from any quarterback who plays for the Giants. I understand it's a mistake from the receivers running their routes at the same depth, but it's two stick routes. You can hit that. It's pretty much open or you can know that neighbors is coming across on a drag. The drag might not produce the solution in a first down, but the worst possible scenario is being this indecisive with it and letting the production break down. You got to be fast on. In my mind, on these concepts, it usually shouldn't be holding the ball that long. Yeah, no. Well, this is a concept that we saw Dable and Kafka run all the time. This concept we've seen Harbaugh run or Roman. It's just mesh wheel. But the wheel got stayed in because Tyrone Tracy Jr. was needed in protection. But just the mesh concept with the deep curl on the back end. I used to run this shit all the time. I'm guessing Charlie Jones ran the wrong route, but I'm not 100% certain. Maybe that screwed up Jameis. It's possible that it messed with him. But just get the ball out, too. Like it's the hair. Sure it did, man. So here's the first play with JJ McCarthy in the game. You go right to the zone read, which we're going to see a bunch up, right? And there's a handoff. And I think this was an excellent run by... This was a great run by Trent Singletary. Well blocked up, too. Andrew Thomas with that little chip that helped the run in. This is probably the best run I saw in the whole run game. I'd say so. Yeah, I'd say so. From an execution standpoint, like all 11 players. Now here's the flair pass. Just a great job by Devin Singletary. Getting 19 yards out of this. Could have easily have been a, you know, what, two yard gain or something. Yeah, it's good spatial awareness by him, which he still has great spatial awareness. Yeah, again, like he's not... Just go back to that real quick. I don't mean to belinger this, but it's just hard for me not to. Imagine if we ran the same play, but it's 22, Naji out there. Is he ever doing this? Is this ever not a two yard loss or a no gain? And that's kind of the point as to why you can't be giving that type of player snaps. Yeah, no, this is a tracing single terry and Scadaboo would have done this. Scadaboo would have done it too. Like it's just so slow, man. Yeah, no, man. Here is... That adjustment by neighbors is so insane. Like not only is neighbors able to adjust to this football in air to make a catch behind him, but... And this is... I'll shout out to the... I forgot who pointed this out to me on Twitter, but it's such a great point by him. It's hard enough to make this adjustment and catch the football. It's even harder to then stay on your feet after it. How many receivers do we see make these crazy adjustments and then fall immediately to the ground? He was able to stay on his feet after it. Yeah. He's a top five receiver, man, if he's all said and done. Top three maybe. It's like at his peak, who knows? Coming back from a 20-CL. Look, it's just quarter, quarter, half. So you have the quarter, quarter. Here's the half defender. It's this player right here who gets influenced inside of this hash on this deep crossing route or post, whatever the hell you want to call it by Charlie Jones. You can see he screwed up right at this point. He's starting to open his hips and then right here, he's on the hash and Malik neighbors is breaking into this space while this player is going. It's just like, I'm screwed at this point. If this ball is put here, this should touch down with a little bit of like soft, I think. Or maybe Malik neighbors would have to deal with 23, but Malik was there too. It's not a great ball by McCarthy, but holy shit, when you have Malik neighbors just throw it up in his area code and he'll make it play like that. Body control and the adjustment is just insane. That's also another reason why I don't totally mind moving to JJ. Because the ball, we're going to have some more, and not that we don't have them already with JMIS., but we're going to have some of these throws that are hot and high. But likely and neighbors are great at catching hot and high throws. Yeah, big hot and high guys. And this was a good throw, the far hash. This is a great far hash rip. Yeah, that's excellent. And then again, though, your tight end just sticks his hand out, has gloves and just catches it with one hand, essentially. He makes insane catches every week, likely. He's so wild how good he's been. Yeah, as a receiver, as a receiver, I think he's in the conversation to be a top three receiving tight end in the league. Easily. Yes. But people be like, oh, now he's showing it, dude. But I felt this way when we went out and signed him. That's why we were excited about this. I was not. I did not see this ceiling personally. I'll be the first to admit it. I thought that this could be what we saw. I thought this was easily within the range of outcome. I mean, dude, like he had- He's essentially operating the Rashid Rice role, but way better than Rice ever operated. That's a great way to illustrate that. That's Jacob for that, James Gibbs, because it's essentially what he is, but just a much better version of it. Yeah, much better, much bigger, and also gives you some, I would say he's an asset as a blocker, or at least slow enough to- he's great blocking in space. This play is the Charlie Jones one, as you'll see, just right up there. You can see Neighbors comes open here too. Right. You see Neighbors, again, these routes- Neighbors loves to put his hand up at all times. Giants love doing this. Yeah. They're running with each other stride for stride. Look how many bodies. Then you're going to have the one break this way, and then Neighbors here. This puts the safety in a spot where he's like, oh, do I go this or do I- This is the Rao combo that Liam Cohen, I feel like, uncovered last year with the Jags, and it saved Trevor Lawrence, and now every coordinator is copying this. Yeah. They're running up. One's running in the wake of the other, right? Yeah. It's so smart. It's so hard to play coverage, especially against what the NFL does coverage-wise these days. Again, though, you need to be able to protect to do this, because there are very long developing routes, and the Giants do a good job, and the Giants also always keep two guys in, right? This is a damn good. You have JC. Davis in right here. Phenomenal pass protection here. Phenomenal chip from Isaiah, likely to start, and then great pass protection across the board. And Jones just does a great job concentrating and finding this ball. This could have easily have been intercepted by Quincy Riley. Correct. Yeah. So, excellent job there. Here, we're going to have the touchdown. This is insane. What a hand snag here from Isaiah, likely. Just insane by Isaiah, likely, and a good throw to just full extension. Pluck. It's not the best throw, right? But it's fine. It's a good throw. I don't want to take anything away from the throw. But my point is what I'm trying to articulate is that Isaiah, likely, makes this play, right? Like when you have a player like that, you just trust him to do it. Yeah, he's the one where you're like, oh, well, I have him. I might as well just throw it up in the air to make that catch. That's what I'm trying to say. Because again, this is still like a throw that's thrown more towards the inside of the leverage and it's high. And you have a guy who's six foot five with an insane wingspan, just allow him to climb up and make this play. And I just love the play design too, because you have Charlie Jones. First of all, you have Singletary release and then you have Charlie Jones running directly at 23. Blackman, I think that is. So basically, since this guy's not going to sink all the way, this isn't a Tampa 2 frickin defense, you're creating the mismatch of Isaiah Likely against this guy with severe outside leverage, Dan, and you're going to have Likely go like this and bend right back inside slightly, right? Well, now the route was bending outward, but McCarthy recognized it and he threw it more towards the inside kind of where the numbers are right here. And that allows Likely to just climb that proverbial ladder and come down with this. All while Malik neighbors is sitting here on the curl. So 22 can't work over the top and remove anything. So to me, McCarthy understood where to put the football here. Just to put it in the general area code and where the mismatch was based on the defensive leverage and he took advantage of it. And I thought he did a good job on that of changing the pace and the trajectory a little bit of that throw as well, because you could see it not as good from that angle. I think I had a cut up somewhere, I posted it on Twitter, where you could just see the release of the football in that Likely touchdown. And I think what he did was change the pace and trajectory enough to get that ball so that it rises and so Likely can pluck it on the rise. Yeah, which is important. This is an insane play by Neighbors and McCarthy. Watch out Neighbors. Well, that's the other thing. With Jamis in the game, this is a sack, right? We've seen it a million times. Yeah, look dude, you're gonna have, again, it's the same thing that we were talking about. You're gonna have Neighbors follow the wake. Yeah. And then once he gets up to the top, he's gonna be leaning, leaning, leaning, and then bends right back. Excellent route by Malik Neighbors to uncover against the safety. Lean, lean, lean, bend, boom. See how he comes open there? Right. Like this, like what is 23, like what does he have to do here? Like look at this lean. He's leaning outside, leaning outside, gets him to flip his hips, and that's where he's like, ah shit, I'm screwed. And then he's gotta obviously take, likely you have this player just paying attention down here. These deep concepts are working, man. The Giants were- They're working really well for the Giants. They were putting, they were protecting A, right? The quarterback was immobile in the pocket, OBC, B. And they were putting these defenders into conflict in the secondary, isolating them and then attacking. And then you have two freak of natures, Isaiah Likely and Malik Neighbors, who are able to make plays like this. But this throw is also, it's not like, yeah, sure, a little bit more touch on it. Okay. But like he still put it away from this player and allowed his star receiver to make this catch. And he threw it on a rope. It had velocity, it had spin, it's a full tight spot, like you could see from the end zone angle. It's an absolute rip. I know, man. So like, yeah, like JJ, like throws it. And then this one, another cleanish pocket, right? It starts to fracture a little bit. This is such a good throw, dude, through the zone like this. And he's reading, like he's reading, he's reading, he's seeing exactly what the safeties are doing, because he looks like, look, he's looking at the safety right at this moment. We'll go to the other view. OK, the safety is acting on Malik. So now we have a bunch of these underneath defenders to worry about. Let me just put a little bit like that is just out of the reach of Pete Warner, dude. That's an that's an incredible row. He's threading the needle. That's the definition of layering a throw over the second level in between the third level. She's seen 74 out there makes me think of Matt Parrott. But, you know, he's reading to see what these guys are doing and how close are going to be, because like throughout the game on these on these deep horizontal crossing routes by nine, which, you know, JJ. McCarthy is very sensitive about by Isaiah, likely these guys have been jumping it sometimes. And that's something that's happened a lot to the Giants, because they are likely over in the middle of the field. But this player doesn't jump it. He stays at a depth. JJ realizes it and then just puts it over the linebacker. That's a very good read. He's put it over the linebacker, but he puts it on time in the sense of like, it's not late and then led into those other third level those to the corner and the safety. That's an excellent play by JJ. McCarthy. And here's the final play of the game where it's like, was he held? It looks like, you know, there is some holding. It could have been called, but they're never calling it on the last play, unfortunately, for us. It doesn't seem like it. But again, empty formation. I don't mind, like people give him, oh, Malik was wide open. It's like, yeah, but Malik wasn't the read. You know, Malik, he looks to his left first, not his right. But Malik does get open, but Malik is also open because JJ. McCarthy's eyes are on the left. Like, I don't know if this safety is going to allow this safety right here. If JJ. McCarthy flashes his eyes to the right, it's gonna be going this way and that window will probably close. Agreed, I think people don't accept. Look at it, you can even see the safety take those steps. Yeah, like once, like this safety is taking these steps because JJ. McCarthy is starting to spin out and he's recognizing that. Like, he's doing a good job keeping a relationship between both of these directions. Right. But you know, Malik threw his hands in the air and it doesn't look bad, but he puts the ball on a catchable spot for Isaiah Lakeley there. Right. It is catchable if he's not being held, which it does appear like he was. Yeah, he does get that into a spot where it's possible to make the play. Yeah, Chase Young gives him a nice... Give me that rough in the passer. No, I'm just joking. But yeah, those are all the plays. Yeah, great breakdown. Honestly, we'll see where the Giants go with this when it comes to what Harbaugh wants to decide. We're not sure. I think for me, the pros will... There's cons and pros to making the move to JJ for this week against Houston, but I think the pros will slightly outweigh it, specifically what it could mean for the Giants' run game. In a matchup where the only real hope to me is to run the football, because I know Houston's 2-4, Nick, but does that look like a 2-4 team to you? Like, CJ Stroud is playing the literal best football of his career, including his rookie year. If you go by the numbers, like he's the only quarterback in the NFL, all six of his games, he's thrown at least 200 catchable air yards. The only quarterback in the NFL. Most guys don't even have one or two games like that. He's done every game and now he's Harrison. And that report started to look good already. Didn't you feel like that's not going to take any time? Like, I feel like by the end of this year, we're all going to be being like, oh, Harrison's not a bust. That's how I feel watching them throw the puck. I feel like it's... He wasn't a bust at Ohio State with him. Right. And everyone's like, it's all Harrison's fault. Why he sucks in Arizona. But like this change of scenery is as good as it gets. He's got a guy who already has a rapport with him. I know. I'll say that like the Texans defense, they fractured a little bit against Liam Coe, but like that's a really good offense. I'm not shocked if the Texans are a top 10 team in the league. I know. With a 2-4 record. I know. That's how I'm approaching this game. So yeah, we're 8-point underdogs in this game. And I think it's for a reason. I think we're outmatched on both sides of the ball, really. They can't run the ball though, right? That's been a big problem. They're horrible at running the ball. Yeah, that's what I thought. And we're horrible at stopping the run. That's the problem. The Saints were 27th in running the ball before they played the Giants. Now they're probably mid-back or something stupid. The Saints were 32nd in allowing. They were the worst run defense in the league. And the Giants... Oh, I just meant the run offense. I know what you meant. But the Giants' offense did nothing on the ground against them. Good point. At home. And they were still injured at linebacker. There was no real reason for them to have that happen. But more for the other side of the ball, where I'm just concerned, is just like the Saints were not able to run the ball at all until they met the Giants. And then, like you said, it was a simple con. It wasn't like they reinvented the wheel in the run game and got us like off guard. It was just, they moved people at the point of attack. When we have, especially when we don't have Harrison Reader in there. Yeah, man. All right, anything. Want to get to some soups? Let's hit some soups. All right, unheralded player. Oh, so, Pirlitiv. For some reason, I thought you meant the Super Chat. Oh, man, you know what? I've been using soups so interchangeably that I completely understand what you mean. All right, let's get the Super Chat. Triple OG. 31. Jamis should start one more week if it's a loss or if you have to bring JJ in mid game again, then turn the keys over to JJ after the bye week. I think that's how a lot of reasonable. Yeah, reasonable take. I think I think it's a very reasonable take. Cy, what's going on? Said division is absolutely winnable now with the sad news about hurts. I also wanted to hear your guys ranking the of these three cults by want and need. Oh, I like this. If they have a potential file fire sale JT, that's Jonathan Taylor, Quentin Nelson or DeForest Buckner. Interesting, interesting. Well, I'll start by saying this. Quentin Nelson, I think the last time somebody tweeted about this, a really good offensive lineman was traded. The deadline doesn't happen often was Thuney. It was either Thuney or Staley. I think it must have been Thuney for a four. So I think Quentin Nelson on an expiring contract might not cost more than a four, maybe a three, despite his reputation. With his rep, it probably would be a three for Quentin Nelson. So let's put that out there. Buckner, I don't know what he would cost right now, but to me, it's clearly Nelson and Buckner what I want. JT, I guess if we give a four, I'm fine with it. I do not want to give a two for JT, which I think is what it would cost. Yeah, same here. So as much as I think we need a running back upgrade, it wouldn't be JT's last for me. I think I would have to go Nelson Buckner. If we want to upgrade running back and use major capital to do it, let's draft a running back at 40 overall. I'm almost leaning Buckner over Nelson too. Just based on the fact that we have committed ourselves to Runyon? Or no? That factors in, but not solely that. I think if you add another... He's a stud defense. Unless he's fallen off, which I don't think he has. I don't know if he has or hasn't after that neck injury. He had a brutal neck injury. I would need to do a little bit of research into this. But if he's playing at the level that I know DeForest Buckner to be at, or at least close to that, which we have guys like Clays Campbell playing into their 40s, then I think adding him to this defense is not only adding a leader, a very respected player, you're adding a fricking defensive difference maker to be paired with Reader and Harris. Now Harris can be your spell guy instead of Darius Alexander. So it's like, I might even lean Buckner over Nelson. For this team right now, I think you make a really strong case that they should be going Buckner over Nelson. But I can't help but get excited about the idea of like, you trade for Nelson and then you can convince him since he's already here to resign. And I don't even care what happens at that point with Runyon, I'll pay the money to keep him on the bench because we can't find a trade partner and just start to manipulate the cap a little bit better than we have or more than we have. The Eagles are paying for it. All right, but we can do it a little bit. You can take a little advantage. You have a rookie quarterback contract going on. Where is the money? Where is it being spent? And dead caps coming off the books as well next year in some regards. So to me, that would be what I would be thinking about, like what Quinton Nelson could mean for our offense moving forward. And I just think, generally speaking, Nick, we're further away somehow on the offensive line than the defensive line right now. Yeah. It doesn't seem to make sense, given the investments and what little we spent at D-line, but I watch these teams, I watch this every week and I know you do too, and we're much worse at the point of attack running the ball than we are stopping the run right now. Yeah, you're not wrong, which is somehow something for sure. Cy also says, thank you Cy, saw a stat that Giants lead the NFL with 16 false starts. Disappointing, the pre-snap penalties still haven't been cleaned up. Yeah. That's very- I don't know who that falls on. I just don't know. Individuals, coaching, quarterback. I mean, it's collective. It's collective. It's coaching, ultimately, like they're there, but at the same time, like you need to, you're a professional athlete, get paid millions of dollars, don't jump off sides, you know, don't fall start. Ox, thank you, said, was that the game fumble on the kickoff killed the vibe? Yeah, it was definitely momentum swing for those who believe in momentum, and I'm one of them. But I know some people don't. Julian, thank you. Always look forward to the pod. Thank you, Julian. Thanks, Julian. What has been three of your biggest disappointments at this point of the NFL season and things you got wrong? OK, oh, yeah, I got a bunch. OK, you go first. And I think I think this is not probably limited to the Giants. I think it's just the NFL season. So the number one by far to me that I got wrong, the most disappointing thing, is the Chargers. I thought McDaniel and Herbert would be a match made in heaven. But I also thought Rashawn Slater would be back and playing great football. He's injured already. Wasn't good when he was playing, thought the kid from Notre Dame, the right tackle, Joe Walt would be playing amazing football and back. He was bad when he returned and now he's injured again. I didn't think they'd be starting four random rookie offensive linemen this week, but that's part of what happened sometimes. And I got it wrong regardless. They were not a good fight. Before I look at it, Nick, regardless of the injuries, they're just not a good fit schematically, I don't think. McDaniel and Herbert. It's also possible McDaniel might be a bit of a fake Sharp at this point. Wow. Speaking of fake Sharp, remember who the big fake Sharp was? The one that we... Brandon Staley. Nah, he might beat the crap out of him. I don't know. This dude might get fired for Adam Gase at some point, which is insane. But also the receivers suck. I was wrong on Quinton Johnson. I thought he was taking a step forward in his career. He's now taking a step backwards. Dropping passes again, the concentration, the confidence is off. The fact that you became a Quinton Johnson guy is so surprising. Yeah, because I hated him. But I thought he had improved watching his tape last year. I was like, this guy's improving as a receiver. And now it's like regression again. Lad McConkie's hurt every other week. That's another issue with them. Hampton hasn't looked like I thought he would. But who can look good with that offensive line? So Chargers 1. Chargers 1 for me as well. Bucks 2 for me. I really thought with that offensive line healthy this year and I'm not having to put like Graham Barton at left tackle. Baker would have a full bounce back and look great and total opposite happened there. So it's one them to them. Do you have any others? Yeah, Christian Parker. I thought he would be able to to a disciple of, you know, yeah, good point. Packers and you know, he had some Fangio ties and everything. I thought maybe he'd be the guy to endow. Stephen's just been an abject disaster. So that's that's that's a big one for me. Chargers for sure. I was right there with you. Yeah, I tend to agree. And I'm sure there are plenty more. I mean, yeah, if I could probably hit every team, almost every team qualifies. I didn't expect the Manion thing to work with Hertz. So it's not like a disappointment or surprise. It didn't. No fan. I know hurts out and I'm not trying to do that. But I would say one surprise has been that like, we may have teams starting to figure out the Dallas offense, which has been like, this has been years running at this point with no one. It's kind of like you just and I don't know how long it will last. I'm sure the Cowboys will adjust. But the last two games teams are just like rushing six against DAC and plan. Tampa did this specifically, like playing to the sticks with the guys they have left in coverage. And it's kind of just fine. And they kind of just blow up the whole offense that way. It seems like that's been really bad against six Russia. I hope the Giants see that, by the way, and copy that if it's still working by that point. So that surprised me. I never really thought that offense would ever break the way it has the Rams being two and four. That's a huge surprise, right? Yeah, yeah, that's everyone surprised by that one for sure. It was like, hey, is it going to be the Rams? The Browns, four and two? Yeah. ToddMonken? Deshaun Watson just coming back and being relevant to him. Not good, but he's like, competent enough. Yeah, so there's a bunch. This is a great question, though. Thank you so much. Derry Gooster says, every week, I hate the Rams more and more. I hope they stay tied last. I don't know why. Oh, because of what happened. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I can blame them for that. That's bad luck. That's football. Yeah, man. Jared Barton, thank you, said, who was who was a better draft prospect, JJ or Dart? I think I might have. I don't know my grades, but I would say they were probably comparable coming out. But I probably would say now in retrospect, I think Dart is a much better. I think he's better than JJ. I think he's I think JJ has a bigger arm when it comes to like velocity and ball jumping out and can generate more force on his pass. But I think Dart varies the ball much more. I think Dart has is a much. And I don't like to get into this because I don't know shit. But like it seems like Dart has a much more resilient and maybe has a mental structure that might be able to withstand certain things. I've just heard a lot about Minnesota, about how JJ would would not handle us like a lot of adversity well. But I don't really know that. So I don't really like saying it. So I'll take that with a grain of salt. But I had them, I think, comparable. I didn't have, I don't think I had first-round grades on either. I know I didn't for Dart. And I don't believe I did for JJ. I think I had like a late two. And I think Dart I had around the same. I would say from a consensus standpoint, not taking in Nick or I's opinion on this, JJ was the better prospect from the consensus standpoint, right? He went in the first round, the top 10. Dart was a late first-round pick. But maybe the NFL looked a little too into like, the ceiling of what JJ could be. But that's still part of his, you know, what he is as a, like he has not. You see it too, you see it. You see it, right? Like, and so like these guys who are scouting, they're like, oh my God, this guy can rip this throw. What if I can get him to see the field so well that he can fit every one of these tight windows in our offense and open up all these other, you know, aspects of us moving the football that we don't have from a quarterback who can't throw it. Like to me, like just watching the tape this week, Nick of JJ., it reiterated to me how strongly I feel that trading for JJ. McCarthy was worth a fifth-round pick. Strongly feel this way. Like they will never get a quarterback with his kind of natural arm talent and athleticism unless they invest a top 30 to 35 pick, which they won't do with darts. So to have this as your QB2, potentially moving forward, potentially QB1 for the rest of this year, and then or worst case scenario, he plays decent for the Giants are pretty well and they trade him for a four or three or whatever it may be. Like all of that to me is so worth dumping a fifth-round pick. Or like, you're never really getting a star there. Okay, very rarely. You're really not even getting a starter there. For long-term, you might get a short-term starter out of it. At best, mostly special teamer. So I looked at my grade for JJ. I had a higher grade on JJ than I did Dart. And I think a lot of that was the ceiling and prognosticating because like a lot of people knocked him. Oh, he played at Michigan and they were hiding. I was like, yeah, but Michigan was just kind of beating up teams at that time. Were they hiding them or was there, you know? So I think some of it was that. But based on certain traits, like how he throws the football and everything like that, like you could tell he has a lot of arm talent. But just judging it, going back off what I can think of Jackson Dart's tape, I saw him at Ole Miss very, how he throws the football, how he delivers that football to, whereas JJ., it's still, it's not like Daniel Jones. Remember when you say Daniel Jones throws like a hard ball to catch? It's not like that. A flat football. It's more just a football that's on a line sometimes, and maybe it doesn't need to be thrown at like 60 miles per hour and it could use, you know what I mean? Sometimes he just needs to put a little bit touch on it when it comes to JJ, which you see sometimes. I remember some plays dating back to his time in college, but I'm glad the Giants traded for him. I definitely see the upside, and I agree with what Dan said a little bit earlier. It's just his fifth round pick, and you didn't want to kick the season to the can, and hopefully if JJ starts after this bye week or during, he performs well and the Giants go to the playoffs and they could trade him and get some compensation back for an asset that is still very young and still is probably has, you know, I think other teams would have wanted him as well. I don't think he was just the Giants. I don't know. Yeah, they have asked there, but yeah. And I would say this, as far as the prospect question goes, Dart has shown me, and there were flashes at Ole Miss, it was just very hard for you to parse through as an evaluator or anyone trying to evaluate even whatever you consider yourself, because the system was very, I don't want to call it gimmicky, but it's Lane Kiffin's college scheme. It takes advantage of the college rules and it provides a lot of opportunities for any quarterback who plays in it. Literally, anyone who goes there is doing it again with LSU. He did it with Sam Levitt, who I don't think is a good quarterback. He did it with Shambla, so I do think might be a good quarterback. By the way, I just like the way that he plays. I know he's small. But Dart has a lot of magic to his game and creativity as far as his throwing goes and what he sees post-snap when he's on the move, that I just think makes him an overall better prospect. They can change arm angles, change trajectory a little bit better. I think he's a better athlete by far and a bigger player than McCarthy. Part of the issue I had with McCarthy is the same issue I had with Jaden coming in that class. The stats on quarterbacks who are sub 200 pounds making an NFL are like no one. There's one outlier, it's Jeff Garcia. No one else essentially did it for any period of time. If I remember that correctly, there might have been one other player, I think it was two seasons of Garcia. One other guy had like a year or two doing it. But will his body and frame hold up at the NFL level? I still think that remains to be seen. Yeah, no, and then we have two more, buddy. Jason Benjamin, I think you said, I was at the game yesterday and this narrative that the Saints were playing prevent against JJ isn't necessarily true. McCarthy has a live arm watching a live. Yeah, no, I don't think they were playing prevent. It wasn't prevent. Yeah. I didn't think so either. Like they were trying to cover four, cover three a lot of the time and the Giants were just dialing up and they were protecting. Yeah. Thank you, Jason, as always though, man. Bear, thank you, said, do you think since Dart injury, Harbaugh will choose an OC of his choice or let Nagy have another year? I don't think Nagy, I mean, again, Nagy could get opportunities. He hasn't been around the league for a long time, knows a lot of people. But there's nothing about what the Giants have done through six games. That makes me think MattNagy is going to get fired at the end of this year. I completely agree with that right now. I had to not expect that coming into the year. It's been a nice, pleasant surprise, what Maggie's been able to do so far. Same. I was really worried about MattNagy. And I think he's done a pretty damn good job. Doesn't mean he's perfect, but I think he's done a pretty damn good job. He's dealing with a backup quarterback. And then literally a quarterback had to play this week that wasn't even on the roster in September. That says a lot about the job he's doing. Exactly. With no run game, by the way. Yeah, with no run game. Exactly. That's a whole other thing. And I don't know exactly where, who to blame. I think that's again a collective blame. You can blame Joe Shane. You can start there. Then you could start going with, you know, Blumgren, Mike Blumgren. Then you can go with Nagy. Then you can go with GregRoman. I think it starts with the players, the individuals. But at the end of the day, I do think it is the players as well. And it's not for a lack of trying. Cause the Giants, dude, we've covered, Dan and I have done this long enough. We've covered coaching staffs where they didn't really vary the rushing attack all that much. Hal Hunter ran 90% inside zone. For real, dude, for real. But here, you're getting different shit. It's still not working. And I do think it is. Cause we don't move anyone, dude. The guys playing up front aren't moving people. You can put, like Kenneth Walker averaged like four yards a carrier. Something crazy low with the Seahawks with bad old lines. He gets Creed Humphrey, he gets Dre Smith. All of a sudden, he's the best running back in football. And I'll say this too. I think this is another reason why the Giants started with three passes in a row. Now, two of them were screens. I think they wanted to back the defense off. And also the defense on the outside, they were closer in the box. But the defense on the outside, they were given like seven, eight yards to Malik neighbors with a blocker who could scoop out there. And they would gain a mathematical advantage or at least make the math even with Malik having to make one guy miss. I'm taking that. And the Giants took it. It sucks because they went three and out. But I think that's the mindset there. It's not just going to run the football here. We're going to try to soften this defense up. We're going to try to throw quick, easy, high, completion rate type of throws to allow our running game to actually manifest. But unfortunately, it didn't work out. And we have one more super that came in, too. Greg, thank you so much that JJ should start against the Texans. The big boy league. No reason to hold him out for a week so Winston can take another L on the chin. If they think he gives them the best chance to win, they will start him. That's to those who coach that side. And as far as our take, it just reiterates what Nick and I said earlier, which is I know you see it on paper. It seems like obvious JJ is a better option. But there are things and factors that just go into this as far as like, can you command the offense? Is the communication going to be right? Are we going to be taking dumb pre-stab penalties, that kill drive, all these things? Because this guy hasn't been with the team that long. No, and dude, it's going to be loud there. Like that's, this was a home game against the Chargers or something? Against anyone really. Yeah, I would get it. But this is a way game against a ferocious, hard-hitting, nasty defense and one of the best defensive minds, too, in football. With D'Amico Ryan's call him plays over there. So you got to factor all of those in. It's not like James is. It's just James is a veteran. James has seen this before. It doesn't mean he doesn't mean it always turned out well. But those those are all questions the Giants are going to suss out. And even if you go with JJ and it's a disaster, you still have a bi-week to kind of rely and reflect back on it and then reevaluate. But I don't really want to be foot flopping too much. But the Giants could because this isn't Jackson Dart you're talking about. These are two backup quarterbacks. I think they can flip-flop all they want, to be honest. That's the thing. The reason why I don't want it necessarily is because I would like to continue. We're the lead in the division. We're a game and a half in Washington. We're in the lead of this division right now. I would like there to be a strong continuity around or for this team in general. If flip-flopping is the best course of action, sure, of course. But I would like it to be like, OK, J.J.'s got the job. Let's hope he takes it and runs with it. So if he's not ready right now, is that what you want to do? I do think the Giants will ultimately be like, who gives us the best chance to win? And that's the way they'll approach it, which I completely get. Yeah, that's fair. All right. All right. Thanks to everybody listening and tuning in on YouTube to the Big Blue Bander Podcast. Really appreciate it if you hit the like button. I forgot to ask earlier. So please help our show grow by hitting like, leaving comments, not just during the show, but after. Otherwise, have a great rest of your night. We'll be back soon with the Defensive Film Review.